MI audio?

[cakeworks]

Hey, does anyone out there have or know of mi audio schematics or layouts? These guys are a small (ish) australian business who sell all over the world. Their stuff is pretty amazing. Particularly their blue boy deluxe (overdrive), sounds remarkably tube amp-ish.

thanks

[alteredsounds]

I think you have answered your own question in some ways. 'These guys are a small (ish) australian business who sell all over the world.' For these guys to stay in business the last thing needed is schems on the net.  Thier pedals are very nice and have many fans and what you should be doing is buying from them to support them if you like thier products.

Schems of current production pedals are not widely tolerated unless the builder gives express permission.

[Peter Snowberg]

Please remember the purpose of this place is to build DIY pedals and not to copy commercial designs from little companies who are in current production.

[newbie builder]

I've heard good things about Mi Audio and they are one of the few boutiques that has acclaimed pedals for very little money. Frankly you're probably better off buying one for what it costs and supporting their business than searching for a schematic.

[Doug_H]

How many times do we have to say this isn't Schematics-R-Us?

It should be in the sticky...

Doug

[MartyMart]

I think we've made a distinction here at this forum, between    "In production by huge company" and
"In production/hand made by a tiny boutique company"

Otherwise one "glance" through Tonepads list of "in production" projects just makes a total joke of all this !

Although that's like saying " I steal from WalMart 'cuz they can afford it " rather than "I won't steal from the corner shop
'cuz they can't afford it "

I can understand both arguments for this .... but which is  "Morally correct"  ?     Neither  !!

Food for thought .....

Peace,
MM.

[Doug_H]

I regret that I pounced too quickly on cakeworks' request, which was an honest one IMO. I usually reserve the "schematics-r-us" comment for the posters whose histories show nothing but a series of "Anyone got a schematic for xxx (current-production pedal)?" Looking at cakeworks'  history, that's not the case here and I apologize for that. It must just be kind of a reflex with me anymore...

Anyway... I don't think it's a "big vs. small" thing Marty. Maybe the reason I don't mind talking about say, a BMP vs another current production pedal is because it has been around so long at this point and is such a milestone in pedal history that it is difficult to ignore. But I don't think we'll ever come up with a consistent rationale as to why certain scenarios "feel" ethical while others don't. Too many differing perceptions of intent and so forth among different people. It's a big gray area for sure.

Doug

[MartyMart]

Absolutely , "Grey area" is an understatement !

Perhaps we should have a "shelf life" on cloning , I don't know, but say "Five years" after launch
it's then "OK" to poke around a circuit ?
The BMPi is more like 25 years though 

The "personal use -V- Rip off and go into production" is the most worrying thing, I doubt that Z-vex or Mi audio
would worry about a few dozen "home made" copies , but full scale "Ebay Store" sales would be a bummer

MM.

[newbie builder]

I think another thing to take into acount is quality. Those large production pedals often don't have the quality some of us want, but the boutique ones do. I see that as a very obvious reason to build  rather than buy a new big muff- quality. I know if i build it the pedal will work reliably and have good parts that won't fail. Also I can mod pedals I make, I can't mod stuff with SMD.

[cakeworks]

eek, sorry guys. I guessed that might not go down well after i posted but oh well. I knew I wouldn't have a hope in hell (at this stage) at building something that sweet. I would have simply liked to gaze upon the masterpieces of my idol's... seriously... well they aren't seriously my idols but gees i like their stuff. I'd love to learn how they get those tones... but thats still wrong... right? that'd be like the fellow who had some guy take photo's of his workshop and threaten him with them... dang...

[Xavier]

Well to me there's 2 kind of boutique builders,

In one hand you have Barber Electronics and MI Audio, they offer great sounding products, well built and FAIRLY PRICED. My Direct Drive hasn't moved from my pedalboard even with all this dist and OD pedals I've built. I would never ask for a schematic. I can see the value in these pedals. The MI Audio pedals are itching me, that cute and small blue boy.....

*politically incorrect mode*

Then you have people who's charging 250$ and up for a fairly simple (and not really innovative) booster pedal, or covering in goop modifications of well known circuits among the DIY community. These ones I have absolutely no remorse in stealing the schematic from wherever it's available. I already feel stolen by their crazy prices

[michael_ibrahim]

Hi guys,

This is Michael Ibrahim from MI Audio. Been a while since I visited, and I just happened to drop in when there's discussion about my pedals.

I'd rather that people not clone my pedals, but I'd be happy to help people out if they require with their own designs, time permitting.

My philosophy on pricing for the pedals is to charge enough for me to make a modest living from them, rather than to price based on perceived tonal 'value'. So if a pedal has a low component count, and is cheap to manufacture, then I'll sell it for a cheap price, even if it compares favourably to much more expensive pedals.

MI Audio is not my second job. It's my only job. I also now employ 5 people, and have their overheads to cover. So this is very much a 'proper' endeavour. So I'd rather that people not engage in things which might jeapordise my livelihood, not to mention the jobs of the people I employ. Even if the intentions of individuals is not to do anything more than build one for themselves, schematics have a way of being passed around, and there's no guarantee of where they'll end up.

I don't think I charge very much for my pedals. It would cost as much to build a one-off as to buy one, so help me pay off my home loan 

Thanks for your understanding.

[MartyMart]

Thank's for dropping in Michael and I'm sure most members here will totally understand and
respect your wishes.
Your pedals look/sound great and are very reasonably priced too.
Best of luck with them .... you may even get a "UK" order 
Regards,

Marty.

[Doug_H]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for stopping by.

I have heard a lot of good things about MI Audio but I don't think I've checked out your site until now. The sounds, looks, and prices are very impressive! (And very tempting, too...) I really enjoyed reading the background info too. I always enjoy the story behind the product.

I also found a nugget of yours buried in the archive that should be very interesting to the JFET amp-sim crowd:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=28854.msg195473#msg195473

Thanks for contributing and don't be a stranger,

Doug

[Doug_H]

I knew I wouldn't have a hope in hell (at this stage) at building something that sweet.

Don't ever underestimate yourself- ever.

You'll be surprised what you can accomplish as you learn.

Doug

[kusi]

Hello michael, nice to see you here!

a little bit OT, but is it possible that you mixed up drain & source in your old JFet-biasing-article?

thanks a lot,
kusi


"...Let's say that you want to build the first stage of a recto amp, which consists of a 220k plate resistor, a 1M grid resistor, a 1.8k cathode resistor with a 1uf cathode cap to ground. The FET circuit would have a 220k source resistor, a 1M gate resistor. Now here's the good bit. The drain would be connected to a trim pot (250k will do) and a very high value cap, at least 22uF. The other end of the trimpot goes to ground, and it's wired up as a variable resistor. The other end of the high value cap goes to the network from the real tube stage, namely a 1.8k resistor in parallel with the 1uF cap both connected to ground.

To set-up the circuit you'd adjust the trim-pot till the source DC voltage read 4.5V (for a 9V main rail). Now the circuit is biased correctly, and the AC equivalent circuit is exactly like the tube circuit, since the trim-pot will probably be set at about 150k, and the low frequency drain resistance will 1.8k||150k which is about 1.8k. This will go to 0 as the cap starts to pass signal..."

[michael_ibrahim]

Hi Kusi,

Yes, you're right. I got those the wrong way around.  How embarashment,... (aussie joke there). But in reality, you can interchange drain and source in most JFETs without any issues, since the structure of the devices is symmetrical. But yes, you're right.

The other thing I got wrong for the sim article is that you don't necessarily need to bias for 4.5V swing. It's probably better to try to emulate the biasing of the amp circuit itself. For example, if the plate supply is 300V, and the plate is at 200V, then biasing for 6V is a better approximation (from a 9V supply)

BTW, I haven't actually built one of these things. This was just my pontification on the issue. Anyone tried to create a full circuit like this?

[Mark Hammer]

Hi guys,

This is Michael Ibrahim from MI Audio. Been a while since I visited, and I just happened to drop in when there's discussion about my pedals.

I'd rather that people not clone my pedals, but I'd be happy to help people out if they require with their own designs, time permitting.

My philosophy on pricing for the pedals is to charge enough for me to make a modest living from them, rather than to price based on perceived tonal 'value'. So if a pedal has a low component count, and is cheap to manufacture, then I'll sell it for a cheap price, even if it compares favourably to much more expensive pedals.

MI Audio is not my second job. It's my only job. I also now employ 5 people, and have their overheads to cover. So this is very much a 'proper' endeavour. So I'd rather that people not engage in things which might jeapordise my livelihood, not to mention the jobs of the people I employ. Even if the intentions of individuals is not to do anything more than build one for themselves, schematics have a way of being passed around, and there's no guarantee of where they'll end up.

I don't think I charge very much for my pedals. It would cost as much to build a one-off as to buy one, so help me pay off my home loan 

Thanks for your understanding.

As weary as I am of such threads that seem to crop up as often as one of my kids proclaiming "I have no clean underwear!", I have to say this is one of the nicest, most level-headed, and down to earth letters I've seen in a while (save for baby announcements on the other forum ).  It's also as plain-spoken a description of how MANY people approach business as you can get.

Thanks, Michael, and I hope you have reason to revisit here, not just in defense of your business and livelihood, but out of sheer interest.

Cheers,
Mark

[Peter Snowberg]

Thanks for stopping by Michael.

MI Audio designs are now on the "absolutely off limits" list so requests for your schematics will get the same response that requests for ZVex, Teese, new EH (and others) get.

I wish you and the rest of MI Audio all the best.
-Peter

[michael_ibrahim]

Thanks guys. I appreciate all your comments and also being accommodating.

This is a very cool place,...