RG's Spyder Clean, Isolated Power Supply

[zpyder]

Hey... zpyder wants to make a spyder.  how cute.

R.G.'s Spyder multi power supply can be found at http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Spyder/spyder.htm

Currently I use a 2A 9v laptop-style adapter that is daisy chained to my pedals.  I might as well filter that stuff.  So then I might as well isolate them.  Fine...

My question is two-fold:
1) Could I just take the 2A 9v output of my adapter and plug multiple Rectifier/filter/regulator circuits (as in R.G.'s first method) into it in parallel???

2) Why does R.G. start talking about unwinding and re-winding a transformer at the end of this article?? I missed the direction there entirely.

thanks!
zpyder

[R.G.]

Currently I use a 2A 9v laptop-style adapter that is daisy chained to my pedals.  I might as well filter that stuff. 

Maybe. Do you get hum and noise? If you don't, then you don't need to filter.

Do you get ground loop hum? If not, then the Spyder won't help. The Spyder is a high end hum fixer.

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

1) Could I just take the 2A 9v output of my adapter and plug multiple Rectifier/filter/regulator circuits (as in R.G.'s first method) into it in parallel???

Yes, you could. But that would sacrifice all of the hum immunity that is the reason for going to a Spyder. It gives you all the pain of building but none of the good stuff of hum immunity.

2) Why does R.G. start talking about unwinding and re-winding a transformer at the end of this article?? I missed the direction there entirely.

Because the whole point of the Spyder is that the power supplies all work from transformer isolated outputs and share no ground connection. That's where the ground loop isolation comes from. There are two ways to do that - (1) brute force with one power transformer for each output and (2) integrated, one power transformer with many secondaries. The second part of the article tells you how to make the integrated power transformer. Since I wrote that, two things have happened. Mouser has a CHEAP 12V/60ma transformer ($2.39 as I remember) and Ted Webber has started having custom transformers made with many 9Vac outputs, suitable for making an integrated Spyder. Since it's no longer cheaper, and there is a safety concern, I don't recommend people to do their own unwind/rewind any more.

[BDuguay]

I bought one of the Weber transformers R.G. mentioned and made my own 8X9VDC + 1X9VAC isolated power supplies. It works great and now all I have to worry about is not having too many pints before show time.
B.

[zpyder]

I get hum here, but not there.  I have a slough of 8+ pedals or so hooked together and sometimes (seems to depend on where I am) it's crystal clear, and other times I get some noticable (Not that nasty, but noticable...) buzzing... It sounds pretty 60-cycle.  I wonder if that is more of a ground loop or filtering issue...??  Makes it impossible to get a clean recording...

I think I see now what you were saying about the secondaries.  I took that first diagram to represent 8 of the filter/regulator circuits running parallel off of a single transformer.  I guess they are each running off their own secondary (!?) ...

Ted Webber has started having custom transformers made with many 9Vac outputs, suitable for making an integrated Spyder.

now all I have to worry about is not having too many pints before show time.

Very interesting... Where can I get one (too many)?

thanks,
zpyder

[zpyder]

bump

[R.G.]

https://weberspeakerscom.secure.powweb.com/store/magnetic.htm

Down at the very bottom.

[BigT]

Hey R.G.

I know your busy but don't you think it would be a good idea to update your Spyder design on your website with these latest findings of transformers?

Thanks for all the info you have supplied about everything.  You are a HUGE asset to us DIYers!

BigT

[R.G.]

Yep.

Done.

[Gilles C]

You know what?

I also decided to build myself a spyder based PS, so you won't be alone...

Having the link for Weber Speakers on this thread made things easier for me to decide... It looks like the perfect tranformer for that job.

Gilles

[zpyder]

Hmmm... cool.  On the Weber site- WPDLXFMR-1 (the last item) says it's got 8 out at 11v, 300mA and 1 out at 9v, 2A ..... So those 8 11v outs are intended for individual pedals?  Why 11v?

zpyder

[Seljer]

Hmmm... cool.  On the Weber site- WPDLXFMR-1 (the last item) says it's got 8 out at 11v, 300mA and 1 out at 9v, 2A ..... So those 8 11v outs are intended for individual pedals?  Why 11v?

zpyder

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Power-supplies/powersup.htm

[bryantabuteau]

I bought a bunch of transformers a while ago for my power supply project, but this weber one looks pretty decent and takes up a lot less space.  anyone ordered one?  any ideas on shipping charges/weight?  The site said it gave an estimation at time of order, but I didn't see it, and am not willing to take a risk ordering a $15 part when the shipping may be many times that, knowing US charges.

[Gilles C]

They emailed me today the total amount including shipping to Canada, and it ended up to $38.00 US. So it's $42.?? CAD for me.

Gilles

[bdevlin]

Is it suitable to put the Spyder power supply(s) in the same enclosure as the effects?  And if so, I assume the effects can not share a common ground.  That would basically mean all the Spyder grounds would essentially be shorted together.

[Stompin Tom]

Hmmm... cool.  On the Weber site- WPDLXFMR-1 (the last item) says it's got 8 out at 11v, 300mA and 1 out at 9v, 2A ..... So those 8 11v outs are intended for individual pedals?  Why 11v?

zpyder

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Power-supplies/powersup.htm

Thanks for the article RG and thanks for the link Seljer... man, suddenly power supplies make so much more sense.

Just curious, what effects use 9volt ac? I suppose there's some reason webber included it.

[R.G.]

There are some popular digital based effects that need so much power that they use a 9Vac adapter at considerable current.

By the way, those effects' power supplies have the same plug end as most "Boss Standard" 9Vdc adapters. It is quick and sure death to your pedal to plug 9Vac into a 9Vdc pedal jack. Yes, even with reverse polarity protection the way most pedals do that. First it burns out the protection, then it kills the rest of the pedal.

[zpyder]

Is it suitable to put the Spyder power supply(s) in the same enclosure as the effects?  And if so, I assume the effects can not share a common ground.  That would basically mean all the Spyder grounds would essentially be shorted together.

Extrapolating on this - if within my enclosures I ground my signal and 9v to the same place (I've seen you refer to the 'sewer' and the 'pristine signal' before R.G.) and use a Spyder to power several pedals all connected, then essentially they all share the same 9v ground, correct?  So using the Spyder is pretty pointless unless all of your pedals have seperate grounds for signal and 9v.  Could you comment on this R.G.?

cheers
zpyder

[Primus]

I think it'd be okay to put the spyder in the same enclosure. A lot of pedals that plug into the wall do just this (think electroharmonix). Potentials reasons for not doing this would be electromagnetic interference from the transformers in your circuits. Right now I am having a b**** of a time with getting noise out of a pedal that has a transformer in the case. So, I recommend putting it in its own case if you can.

Now as far as common grounds, it's okay for your pedals to share a common ground. This is expected since the circuits are grounded to the case through the jacks and the cases are connected to one another through your guitar cables. This is fine. Ground loops arise when there is a SECOND common ground, namely at the power supply. So as long as you mainting separate grounds for the power sources, you can't form a loop (only a line).

John

[BDuguay]

I bought a bunch of transformers a while ago for my power supply project, but this weber one looks pretty decent and takes up a lot less space.  anyone ordered one?  any ideas on shipping charges/weight?  The site said it gave an estimation at time of order, but I didn't see it, and am not willing to take a risk ordering a $15 part when the shipping may be many times that, knowing US charges.

  Re: RG's Spyder Clean, Isolated Power Supply
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 10:12:11 PM »   

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I bought one of the Weber transformers R.G. mentioned and made my own 8X9VDC + 1X9VAC isolated power supplies. It works great and now all I have to worry about is not having too many pints before show time.
B.

[Gilles C]

I just received the transfomer I ordered from Weber Speakers. Shipping was not cheap, but it was very FAST.

So it won't be the last time I will order from them.

The transformer looks cool, all brown wires  except the 110V primary and the 9 V ac output. But it will fit well in a box with 9 regulators and the associated parts.

Gilles