For RDV, Joe Cool and others: chip amp into an integrated pedalboard

[David]

I've had it with digital.  On Sunday, all I used was a flanger and it sounded better than my processor stoked to the max with effects and simulations.  The pedalboard projects presented lately have fired me up.  'Course, I'm also cogitating on some digital control trickery, but that's a little ways down the road.  The PIC16F628 and I are on VERY good terms these days...   

Anyway, let's say that I construct some type of ASMOP pedalboard and a string of analog effects to go with it.  For years, I have wanted a rig that I can carry in and set up in seconds.  I thought the GT-3 would give me that, but I had to add external crap to overcome its shortcomings -- so much so that I added to my setup time.  All right, so I have my board. I'll put some kind of DI in it to plug into the house PA.   I'd like to also put a power amplifier into this rig so that all I have to do is plug some kind of speaker into it.  I'm thinking a small floor monitor, but I'm not that far yet.

OK, I know I'll have to shield and regulate the control system and the effects.  I would guess I'll have to also provide separate power for the amp as well as shielding, regulation and cooling.  Shielded cables, of course, will be a must.  What other dragons would I have to slay to make something like this work?

QKits has a kit for a 35W mono power amp.  Could that be used here?

[Gilles C]

I once wanted to have everything into the same box, but over time I changed my mind.

These days, I prefer a separate box for the controls (PIC, relays, Footswitches), another one for the effects, and I would prefer to have the amp into the speaker box to be used as a monitor. I already have a separate DI box that does its job well on its own, and only when it's needed.

But that's only my opinion of course. And it changes from time to time...

Gilles

[David]

I once wanted to have everything into the same box, but over time I changed my mind.

These days, I prefer a separate box for the controls (PIC, relays, Footswitches), another one for the effects, and I would prefer to have the amp into the speaker box to be used as a monitor. I already have a separate DI box that does its job well on its own, and only when it's needed.

But that's only my opinion of course. And it changes from time to time...

Gilles

Valid points, all.  In my situation, however, multiple boxes are too much to carry.  With the integrated amp, I'd just need a speaker of some kind to plug into (I could probably appropriate a stage monitor in a pinch) and I could hear myself.  The PA would be handled with the DI connection.

I had real high hopes for that AN-1000 powered monitor I bought last year.  Sure didn't work out the way I had planned.  It does vocals real well, but it makes my guitar sound like a**.  However, it's handy to keep around as a small PA, so I'm not going to cannibalize it.  Yet.

[RDV]

My Modded Dr. Boogie sounds unbelievable straight into my old Digitech RP-12 and straight into our Mackie 8 channel PA head. My thought has been to run it into a channel and take an output from the channel insert and run that into half of a Crown power amp into my 412 cabinet for monitoring purposes. It kicks butt. My Marshall has seen better days.

On your subject matter, a chipamp will can work for you but a decent preamp and EQ will be a must.

RDV

[David]

My Modded Dr. Boogie sounds unbelievable straight into my old Digitech RP-12 and straight into our Mackie 8 channel PA head. My thought has been to run it into a channel and take an output from the channel insert and run that into half of a Crown power amp into my 412 cabinet for monitoring purposes. It kicks butt. My Marshall has seen better days.

On your subject matter, a chipamp will can work for you but a decent preamp and EQ will be a must.

RDV

Hmmm...  "Can" instead of "will".  Are you less than pleased with your chip amp experiences?  Perhaps I should explore the powered monitor concept further...

[RDV]

There's no guarantee that a SS amp of any kind will be your tone. It's well worth it IMO to try though as a good clean power amp can always be used for something.

There's a good chance your powered monitor contains a chipamp(or 2) as well. With the right preamp/EQ I believe a powered monitor can be made to work as a guitar amp.

RDV

[David]

There's no guarantee that a SS amp of any kind will be your tone. It's well worth it IMO to try though as a good clean power amp can always be used for something.

There's a good chance your powered monitor contains a chipamp(or 2) as well. With the right preamp/EQ I believe a powered monitor can be made to work as a guitar amp.

RDV

You raise good points.  The monitor sounds quite good with vocals.  It also does a nice job with my acoustic 12 using a Woody pickup.  It was just cruddy with effects-laden electric guitar and distortion.  Of course, I'm quite certain I overdrove the crap out of the poor thing.

IDEA!     What do you think of this?  After the effects chain, what if I put something like a ROG Tonemender, followed by an Adjusticator half set to attenuate the output signal back down to mic level?  The powered monitor handles those signals nicely.

[RDV]

There's no guarantee that a SS amp of any kind will be your tone. It's well worth it IMO to try though as a good clean power amp can always be used for something.

There's a good chance your powered monitor contains a chipamp(or 2) as well. With the right preamp/EQ I believe a powered monitor can be made to work as a guitar amp.

RDV

You raise good points.  The monitor sounds quite good with vocals.  It also does a nice job with my acoustic 12 using a Woody pickup.  It was just cruddy with effects-laden electric guitar and distortion.  Of course, I'm quite certain I overdrove the crap out of the poor thing.

IDEA!     What do you think of this?  After the effects chain, what if I put something like a ROG Tonemender, followed by an Adjusticator half set to attenuate the output signal back down to mic level?  The powered monitor handles those signals nicely.

...or one of the ROG cab sims? Try anything & everything, it's why we're all here.

RDV

[Gilles C]

I remember I once saw Bonnie Rait use a Fender Blues Junior as a monitor close by.

I have a portable Peavey Solo that works well for me. Good for accoustic or electric guitar .

http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/93630/number/00476100/cat/75/begin/1/SoloAE.cfm

Gilles

[Doug_H]

Sometimes a simple graphic EQ can solve these kinds of problems too. I am running my amp with a 6L6 now, pretty much completely clean. I use my Fab distortion for high gain distortion but it gets fizzy with the amp set up like this. So I put it in a loop with my 7-band EQ and switch both of them in and out with a loop/bypass box. I use the EQ mainly to roll off the fizz but I also add a little bass to give my strat single coil bridge pup a little "chunk", which is kind of an added bonus. It ends up sounding really great and I have a nice clean tone when I need it too.

I would definitely experiment with different EQ ideas for running direct into a full range p.a. speaker. If you have one of those EQ pedals lying around (or even a rack-mount or hi-fi EQ) I would start with that. You may not have to build anything.

[David]

Hmmm...

So, how far away from your speakers do you guys stand?  I just recalled something weird from this past Sunday.  My amp was on a stand right behind me.  A floor monitor was about 4.5 feet away.  The "lead" guitar's (there's another subject I need some help with, but later) amp was on the floor... not facing me...  maybe 7 feet away.  I mostly heard him.  This bodes ill for a small monitor setup.

P.S.  I took a mind-clearing break earlier this afternoon and called the manufacturer.  Interestingly enough, they don't think the unit should sound that crappy with an electric.  They think the speaker(s) could be damaged and are suggesting I get a RA number and send it to them.  Yeah, might cost me a little, but if a hardware problem is impeding the unit's function...

The other thing is, I've never sat down and tried to see if corrective EQ could clean the thing up.  I have an old DOD graphic EQ.  Might be time to pull that puppy out of the closet and teach it some new tricks.

Thanks for the ideas, guys.  Resolution might be possible...

[jrc4558]

If you need an amp in the end of your pedal chain,then this one: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_lm3886_amp.pdf will do nicely. It will take a bipolar power supply, but its sound is loud and clean and the chip can drive anything down to 4 ohms. It also has thermal shutoff and a mute switch! The board offered at GGG is small enough, and I assume you could incorporate both the board and the power supply into a compact case to carry with you. All you will probably need is a Vin*0 to Vin*10 preamp and you're good to go!