Opinions needed. Best envelope filter/ autowah

[roknjohn]

I've seen a few reviews about the DOD FX25, Nurse Quacky, Dr. Q, and MXR. What about the Motion Filter or Vox autowah? Any experience with those?
I'm trying to decide which to build.

Would like to get something kinda close to Warren Haynes of GOVT MULE. Thought I read he uses a Guyatone unit.

All input is welcome.

[Seljer]

the Mu-tron is among the most legendary ones too (I think its on Geofex as the Neutron)

[roknjohn]

I forgot to mention that one. And now that I think of it, the samples I've heard of it are pretty darn close to the sounds Warren gets. I'll check out the Neutron and see how involved it is. Have you built it Seljer? Any further thoughts...easy/tough build...parts readily available?

I'd like to get as much input as possible before I decide which to build.

[Mark Hammer]

The Mutron has its charms and certainly good lineage/pedigree.  Some VERY good tones possible.

While not as flexible in terms of the KIND of filters it has, the Anderton Bi-Filter Follower and the E-H Bass Balls both have a great deal of flexibility with respect to moddability.  In particular, the layout over at topopiccione (http://topopiccione.atspace.com/PJ08EHBassBalls.html) is nice and compact.  If you look here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/mhammer/Pedalpix/Filterpedals.jpg you'll see a beige pedal labelled Ultraballz sitting next to some other filter pedals built into the Taiwanese 125C, Hammond 1590BB, plus an old E-H Y-Troggered filter.  That'll give you some idea of the size of the build.  Actually, if you were willing to live without the number of controls I put on mine, you could probably build a BassBalls into a 1590B easily using Alex Petrini's PCB layout.

The stock Bass Balls has a normal/fuzz toggle and sensitivity switch.  Personally, if I had to make choices to conserve space, I'd skip the toggle and leave it on "fuzz".  Replace the 100k/47k network on the fuzz path with 10k and a pair of GE diodes or whatever gets the max level to something similar to bypass.  The envelope follower section uses a 100R series resistor to set attack time and a 330k resistor to set decay time.  Drop the 100R to 47R and trade the 330k for a 47k and 500k pot in series to get a fast attack and vary the decay time.  You'll find that variable decay an ally in matching the feel of the sweep to the song.  Fast-decay sweeps sound much more synth-like IMHO.  Though the BB does not have an up/down sweep switch like the Mutron, the ultra-fast attack makes the decay phase of the sweep the predominant one so that it sounds like it sweeps only downward.

You CAN move the dual 10k trimpots to chassis-mount pots for tuning the filters and their stagger.  For tonal-variation purposes, a simpler method is to use a 10k linear pot with 1k5-2k2 resistors on each outside lug in place of the two resistors shown as R11/R16 here: http://topopiccione.atspace.com/pjimages/EHBassBalls.sch.gif  This will let you adjust the balance of each filter section.  One way sounds very much like a Dr Q, and the other sounds more like a bass wah.  Midway gets you stock filter-balance.

Between the sensitivity control, the decay time, and filter balance pot (and 3 pots fit easily on a 1590B) you'll find a really pleasing-sounding pedal with a surprising amount of versatility for such a teeny package.

If clean vocal-sounding wah is your preference, the MXR Envelope Filter is a great unit, and Francisco Pena's layout at Tonepad is time-tested and verified.

[Pushtone]

Can't speak for the others but I have just built
the GGG MXR EF with Mods and have been playing with it a lot.

If your definition of best includes lots of knobs to fiddle with it
then the MXR EF w/ Mods is a good one.
If your looking for a performance oriented one then perhaps the DOD.

There lots of sounds in the MXR EF but it can get a bit confusing and hard to get back to
where you were a minute ago because of all the mods (knobs).

If you do built the MXR read the Tonepad build reports for some part subs that will
fix a level drop issue and yield a fuller sound. Mark Hammer also posted a thread for adding
a release pot (even more knobs!!).

For a EF that is simple to use with one good sound, I would look to the DOD.

[Mark Hammer]

I just finished wiring an FX-25 up the other night, and it does behave nicely, though it has a fairly "rigid personality".  The Bass Balls has a lot more "stuff" to it but uses fairly common parts that don't take up a huge aount of space.  I can also say that Alex' layouts for both the FX-25 and BB are about the same size and both fit neatly in a 1590B.

The MXR-EF is a VERY nice unit and has been a favourite for over two decades now (bought my first around 1978 or 79), chiefly because it has probably the best variable attack time in the business.  As I've noted on many occasions, the time parameters of the sweep are a huge part of what gives a filter its particular character and are important in determining whether a pedal setting "fits" a song.  Depending on what you want the pedal to do for you, the MXR-EF can be perfect...or not.  To my ears it doesn't sound as "emphatic" as others like the BB or Mutron.  The EF is great for solos but is much more of a rhythm players filter pedal than a lot of others simply because it responds to strumming better and more predictably than many others.  The Anderton BFF is also good in that way, though a little pricier to put together and more complicated.  The Mutron, and BB, are very much lead players' pedals and bass players' pedals.

[roknjohn]

Thanks for your input Mark and Pushtone. Sounds like the MXR is a little harder to get repeatable settings (not that it's a bad feature - if every performance was the same we'd all be bored anyway), and the Bassballs is quite modificationable (presidential speak - a Bushism? Hey it's Friday!).

This is great, who else can chime in? I was hoping to hear input on the Motion filter, as I don't recall finding any info other than a schematic.

[bwanasonic]

My favorite unit is the EMMA Discumbobulator , which seems to be based (or at least behaves like) the MXR. The sensitivity/ responsiveness makes for a very musical and versatile EF. I moved it off my board to make room for a Line 6 FM4, but I've been missing it lately.

Kerry M

[roknjohn]

As far as definition of "best", that's wide open. Everyone has their own definition of best. Tell me which ones you use, and what you feel it's best features are...then tell me which one you think sucks and why. Just trying to get an all around view of them all, and I'll base my first build (auto wah build that is) on the features I think I'd like most.

[Mark Hammer]

I have not seen or used the Motion Filter, but the schematic is posted around and I think I built one a while back.  It's your basic single bandpass filter and will sound not that much different than a Dr. Q, or more particularly a Dr Quack, given the input buffering.  Decent, but no particular personality.

[Meanderthal]

 Favorite- Ibanez(or maxon) auto filter af-9, although rumor has it that it's just a Mutron clone. The only Mutron I ever tried was too hard to control, somewhat unpredictable. But then again it was old, beat, and maybe defective.
Least favorite- Bassballs! Nasty whistly filters with no wah character, more of a sick moog sweep(you can go nuts playing with the trimpots trying to find a useful sweep range), no attack or delay control, ugly fuzz. Yuck!  Just my opinion...

[Mark Hammer]

The AF-9 is not exactly a Mutron, although a great many Mutron clones were made under license under other names like the Funky Filter (bought one of those for $25 in 1977; why oh why did I ever sell it?).  However, it IS a state variable filter, the same way the Meatball and the Mutron are, so it should have very similar sounds and capabilities.

The stock Bass Balls is, I agree, not a particularly thrilling pedal.  Properly modded, however, I find more to like about it every day.  I should post some samples of mine.  NOT your mother's Bass Balls.

What we haven't mentioned here are any of the alternate sorts of swept filters like the Vanishing Point, or some of Steve Giles' E-H Microsynth /Anderton Bi-Filter hybrids.

[roknjohn]

Thanks for the input Kerry.

Anyone have experience with the Vox autowah. If memory serves me, I thought the circuit looked somewhat similar to the EH stuff.

[roknjohn]

Thanks for your input Meanderthal.

Mark, a sample would be great. I'll try to find a sample of sounds I'm looking for before I leave for the day (a couple hours yet).

Ya know, what I should do is catalog samples that folks post here, and put 'em on a CD so I have 'em whenever I want to compare. Wonder if it would be possible to start a repository (or is that suppository Mr. Bush?) connected with this forum, for all to use.

[Mark Hammer]

Do what I do.  Over the years, I've been accumulating a directory on my hard drive of sound samples.  Samples are generally easy enough to find, but if you have them all organized in a directory, you can run through a set of them in media Player or whatever you use and make comparisons.  The playing or setups are not always that comparable, but often its enough to have a sense of what THIS type of circuit does, relative to THAT one.

[roknjohn]

That's exactly what I was thinking Mark. Every so often back it up to CD or DVD, don't have to be at the same machine, or a buddy wants a new fuzz, let him listen and pick out what he likes best.

[Mark Hammer]

The other thing is that some folks who provide samples end up receiving bandwidth-hogging complaints from their ISP.  Case in point is Modezero.  The webmaster of the site has provided a really rich source of information about the various pedals found there.  he has indicated to me that he tries not to publicize the site very much largely *because* of the amount of information there which, if it received lots of hits, would result in him having to pay more out of his pocket to provide the site.  So, I visit now and then, download select examples of anything that's new, and use my hard-drive copies for listening to rather than going to the site and causing him aggravation and cost.

[Meanderthal]

Hey, I'd love to hear a modded bassballs! Might inspire me to dig mine out from the bottom of my big box of pedals that I have but don't use. Actually mine is an "Eleca Bass Distortion bb-1", a relabled black sovtek. The smaller tanklike black sovtek enclosure(looks like the small stone). It is a straight up bassballs inside, and I have no idea why they called it a distortion! Unless they were talking about the fuzz switch. Ugh. If ya see one of these they're about $40.00 so a little cheaper than the sovtek.
So if I can mod it to usability(I play bass) I'd be thrilled! hehe! I was just gonna eventually gut it and use the indestructable enclosure for an actual bass distortion... eventually.

[roknjohn]

Well, I wasn't able to get a sample to post.

I'd still appreciate input from others who haven't voiced their opinions yet. What about that Meastro thing?

I'll check in after the weekend.

[lowstar]

hey, nobody mention the meatball ?!?

i really like mine, very versatile, nice build, you can even do it on perf, lotsa controls, did i say versatile ? 

my neutron is not giving me that much joy...not enough volume for true bypass...gotta do something about it.

also did the nurse quacky with some bass mods, nice pedal indeed, small footprint...
...but my favourite is the meatball so far (will do an agua soon).

cheers,
lowstar