Wah wah sound problem

[Fuzzy-Train]

First I'd like to say hi to everybody. I'm new and this is my first post. I have little experience with pedal building and modding but I'm having soo much fun learning.

I moded my dunlop hendrix wah and I'm getting some weird sound problems. For some reason when the wah is in the heel position some notes have a great gain/feedback sound but others don't. Especially around the 12th and 15th fret on the G, B, and high e string. The sound drops and it sounds almost muted, BUT if I move my foot just a teeny tiny bit forward (toe) the notes have that nice gain/feedback sound that the others have when heeled out.

I basically did these mods http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=articlewahmods7zvbj9.jpg / http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/mods/dunlop.htm

Except I didn't change the transistors, or use the 100k pot. I just switched to a 56k resistor for the vocal mod. I put in the 330 ohm resistor in place of the 470 ohm, but I switched back to the 470 ohm thinking it might help but it pretty much stayed the same. I replaced the 68k resistor with a 39k resistor, and my wah came stock with the .022uf cap so that has stayed the same.

I have very little experience with this kind of stuff, but here's what I think may be the problem. I think I might need to switch to a 270 ohm resistor since those are supposed to add more gain But, I'm worried that might make it worse, and I don't have a 270 ohm to test it with.

My other idea is that the pot might be shot because I got it from a friend who is very rough with his gear, so it might be dying out. I tried adjusting the pot to see if that might work but no luck. Unless the pot is set so I get the maximum allowed treble, or toe, it just doesn't sound right... it's way to bassy and muted.

So, I think the pot is the problem but I wanted to hear from some people with more experience before I buy one and find out it's not the problem. Other then that I have no idea why it's doing that. Is this normal with all wah's?

Thanks for your time and for the help.

[jonathan perez]

I moded my dunlop hendrix wah and I'm getting some weird sound problems. For some reason when the wah is in the heel position some notes have a great gain/feedback sound but others don't. Especially around the 12th and 15th fret on the G, B, and high e string. The sound drops and it sounds almost muted, BUT if I move my foot just a teeny tiny bit forward (toe) the notes have that nice gain/feedback sound that the others have when heeled out.

hmm...have you worked with a wah before? that sounds somewhat normal to me, unless youre not getting any sound on those notes?

Except I didn't change the transistors, or use the 100k pot. I just switched to a 56k resistor for the vocal mod. I put in the 330 ohm resistor in place of the 470 ohm, but I switched back to the 470 ohm thinking it might help but it pretty much stayed the same. I replaced the 68k resistor with a 39k resistor, and my wah came stock with the .022uf cap so that has stayed the same.

no problems there, but make sure its a 330/470 ohms, not K ohms resistor.

I have very little experience with this kind of stuff, but here's what I think may be the problem. I think I might need to switch to a 270 ohm resistor since those are supposed to add more gain But, I'm worried that might make it worse, and I don't have a 270 ohm to test it with.

im not sure why that would be the problem.

My other idea is that the pot might be shot because I got it from a friend who is very rough with his gear, so it might be dying out. I tried adjusting the pot to see if that might work but no luck. Unless the pot is set so I get the maximum allowed treble, or toe, it just doesn't sound right... it's way to bassy and muted.

no, your friend is just crazy.  pots only "die out" from being overheated, tarred and feathered, or age. .022 is pretty darned low...and i think that 330ohms is overkill. if you set the pot so that its max treble allowed, then why would it sound bassy and muted?
IMO, that wah only need a couple mods.
1. 100k (Q)
2.BC109/239 transistors
3.Halo Inductor

Ill buy one this weekend, and mod it as so...

[Fuzzy-Train]

hmm...have you worked with a wah before? that sounds somewhat normal to me, unless youre not getting any sound on those notes?

I am getting sound, it's just really, really muted on some frets, actually most of them.... like if I do a 43210 progression on the A string keeping it in the heel position it sounds like this, 4 muted, 3 muted, 2 muted, 1 slightly less muted but still muted, and 0 has significant and overwhelming gain, AND volume gain. And if I do a powerchord like A using the E string for a bass note, the octave higher rings out over all the others and that's all you can hear. This could be normal IDK, this is my first wah pedal, and my first time modding anything, but from what I've heard from other peoples music it doesn't usually sound like that.... granted they probably don't do progressions like that, staying in the heel position. But like I said, unless the pot is set the way I mentioned before the problem gets a lot worse. And when I try doing solos, and just  improvising you notice the drop in sound on some of the notes, which, for me, is rather annoying and unpleasant.

no problems there, but make sure its a 330/470 ohms, not K ohms resistor.

Yeah, I've been checking my resistors 3 times, on 2 different sites before I put them in, and they all said the same thing.

im not sure why that would be the problem.

Well this is why I think it might be the problem.

From stinkfoot:

"Gain mod: Removing the buffer" (which I did) "can make the wah quieter, and there are two ways to combat this. Either replace the 68K input resistor with a lower value (like 47K) or lower the value of the 390 resistor to something between 270-330Ω (which will also give more bass). Remember that the Vox wahs use a 490Ω resistor instead of the Dunlop's 390Ω, and it sounds just fine. Some Dunlop wahs also use values between 470-510Ω. So try yours with stock resistors first - you might not need more gain after all. Mine didn't, possibly because I also did the vocal mod." I also did the vocal mod.

So I thought that If I placed a lower value ohm resistor in there it might make those notes that are muted sound like the others. But, I think it'll also make the ones that are bad now, even worse. I re-installed the original 470 ohm resistor and didn't notice that much, or really any change at all. I just thought of something just now though. Lowering the 68k resistor (which I did, to 39k) also gives the unit more gain and helps with the volume loss of the the buffers removal. But now I'm almost 100% that if I switch to 47k (which I have handy) or the back to the 68k it would fix my problem?

no, your friend is just crazy.  pots only "die out" from being overheated, tarred and feathered, or age. .022 is pretty darned low...and i think that 330ohms is overkill.

I tried swapping the .022 with a .01 but it didn't help my problem either. It added some trebel but didn't fix it.

if you set the pot so that its max treble allowed, then why would it sound bassy and muted?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Unless I set the pot that way all I would get is extremely muted notes in the heel position, to overwhelming and annoying high gain, and volume when transitioning to the toe position. I don't think that's supposed to be normal though cause it sounds nothing like the wah sound clips from people on other forums, or from music I've listened to.

IMO, that wah only need a couple mods.
1. 100k (Q)
2.BC109/239 transistors
3.Halo Inductor

Ill buy one this weekend, and mod it as so...

That would be amazing if you could do that.

I wanted to try a new halo, but I didn't want to shell out $30 USD (I live in Canada, so for me it's just a little more) in the case that it doesn't change the sound any, or just not to my taste. I also wouldn't mind doing the 100k pot mod but I don't have a pot handy, and I don't have any drill bits for metal work (but my dad or uncle probably have some). And as for the transistor swap goes. Do you mean swap both of them, or just one of them and use either the 109 or 239? And if it's only one that gets changed which one?

Thanks a lot for the help man. And I can't wait to see what you come up with if you choose to do the mods.

[Fuzzy-Train]

Sorry about the double post, for some reason the modify link is not showing.

I changed the pedal back to the original layout (excluding the buffer), and it hasn't helped at all... still does the same thing. I also tried every combination I could think of with the parts that I have and it' still didn't fix it... I think it's either the transistors, the pot, maybe the inductor, or some other part that I haven't removed and replaced, or I need to put the buffer back in. Or maybe I'm just crazy and it's normal for a wah to do this... but I don't think so cause the volume and gain difference is way too high to be normal.

Any thoughts?

[jonathan perez]

I am getting sound, it's just really, really muted on some frets, actually most of them.... like if I do a 43210 progression on the A string keeping it in the heel position it sounds like this, 4 muted, 3 muted, 2 muted, 1 slightly less muted but still muted, and 0 has significant and overwhelming gain, AND volume gain. And if I do a powerchord like A using the E string for a bass note, the octave higher rings out over all the others and that's all you can hear. This could be normal IDK, this is my first wah pedal, and my first time modding anything, but from what I've heard from other peoples music it doesn't usually sound like that.... granted they probably don't do progressions like that, staying in the heel position. But like I said, unless the pot is set the way I mentioned before the problem gets a lot worse. And when I try doing solos, and just  improvising you notice the drop in sound on some of the notes, which, for me, is rather annoying and unpleasant.

cant figure that one out...i tried neck pickup, tone knob off, bridge, tone off, clean, dirty, and from each cap setting, from .01-.047...ALTHOUGH! ive i have my wah on carpet, versus my pedal board, the low end of the sweep drops dramatically, and sounds funny as hell, but not in a good way. and back on the board, it has the nice sweep...try playing on hardwood, or a book, if youre playing on carpet...

"Gain mod: Removing the buffer" (which I did) "can make the wah quieter, and there are two ways to combat this. Either replace the 68K input resistor with a lower value (like 47K) or lower the value of the 390 resistor to something between 270-330? (which will also give more bass). Remember that the Vox wahs use a 490? resistor instead of the Dunlop?s 390?, and it sounds just fine. Some Dunlop wahs also use values between 470-510?. So try yours with stock resistors first - you might not need more gain after all. Mine didn't, possibly because I also did the vocal mod." I also did the vocal mod.

any lower than 390, and it seriously becomes too much. ESPECIALLY with a .022 cap. i just tried it, and it was gnarly. but still, didnt get your exact problem...

So I thought that If I placed a lower value ohm resistor in there it might make those notes that are muted sound like the others. But, I think it'll also make the ones that are bad now, even worse. I re-installed the original 470 ohm resistor and didn't notice that much, or really any change at all. I just thought of something just now though. Lowering the 68k resistor (which I did, to 39k) also gives the unit more gain and helps with the volume loss of the the buffers removal. But now I'm almost 100% that if I switch to 47k (which I have handy) or the back to the 68k it would fix my problem?

well, theres no harm in trying that. though that doesnt seem like it would be the problem, either. i say, lets start with your main 3 villians.
inductor
transistors
buffer removed with no true bypass.


[

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Unless I set the pot that way all I would get is extremely muted notes in the heel position, to overwhelming and annoying high gain, and volume when transitioning to the toe position. I don't think that's supposed to be normal though cause it sounds nothing like the wah sound clips from people on other forums, or from music I've listened to.

try the transistor swap.

I wanted to try a new halo, but I didn't want to shell out $30 USD (I live in Canada, so for me it's just a little more) in the case that it doesn't change the sound any, or just not to my taste. I also wouldn't mind doing the 100k pot mod but I don't have a pot handy, and I don't have any drill bits for metal work (but my dad or uncle probably have some). And as for the transistor swap goes. Do you mean swap both of them, or just one of them and use either the 109 or 239? And if it's only one that gets changed which one?

just try a 100k resistor in place, instead of pot. but thats further mods, first we need to get rid of your "ugly low" problem... you have to swap both transistors, but you dont have to use JUST those transistors. you can use 2n5089, 2n5088, or the stock mpsa18. i recommend the first, and the 109b.

have you true bypassed it?

if so....move on to the next step.

swap both transistors, but make sure theyre in correctly.

if that doesnt work, or if it does, do this anyways...
swap the inductor. i assure you, a halo inductor is WELL worth the money. ive got inductors galore, but you can do ALOT with a halo inductor. to be honest, if you dont want to spend 30 bucks, the dunlop fasels work fine, at 15 bucks.

think you can post sound clips? just use myspace, if you have to, like i did. 

[Fuzzy-Train]

cant figure that one out...i tried neck pickup, tone knob off, bridge, tone off, clean, dirty, and from each cap setting, from .01-.047...ALTHOUGH! ive i have my wah on carpet, versus my pedal board, the low end of the sweep drops dramatically, and sounds funny as hell, but not in a good way. and back on the board, it has the nice sweep...try playing on hardwood, or a book, if youre playing on carpet...

I have it on a board of wood as well. I've also tried just the wah, the wah with my tube break up, the wah with my overdrive, the wah with my fuzz and the problem is still present.

you have to swap both transistors, but you dont have to use JUST those transistors. you can use 2n5089, 2n5088, or the stock mpsa18. i recommend the first, and the 109b....swap both transistors, but make sure theyre in correctly.

Sorry, I'm a little confused as to which ones I should try. Should I use the  2n5089, 2n5088 combo or the BC109/239 transistors combo? And which ones would go where? And excuse my noob-ness but how do they go in properly. Here's a pic of my board for reference:

The pic was taken before I did any mods to it. The red circle and x indicates the buffers removal. I haven't taken any pics of it lately, plus my brother is the only one with a digi-cam and he just left today for University.

have you true bypassed it?

Yup.

think you can post sound clips? just use myspace, if you have to, like i did.

I can... I have a really great program for recording (cubase sx3, amazing for editing and multi tracking BTW) I just don't really want to create a myspace account for this...(I  really really hate myspace) but if I must, I must LOL. I'll do it tomorrow though, it's about 12:31 am over here and I'm forcing my eyes to stay open as we speak. But, my uncle gave me the day off tomorrow so I'll be able to get some in the morning or afternoon.

[jonathan perez]

i suggest you DONT combine the transistors. a pair of 2n5089s should do it. you can combine them, but it wont sound very good. 

they go in the same order as the current transitors.

[Fuzzy-Train]

Am I crazy or did this thread move? Sorry to the mods if it was in the wrong forum.

Damnit. I made the sound clip but the files are all messed saying something about the wrong "codec" or whatever. I just recently reformatted my hard drive, and it was working before that but that's because my brother fixed it.... I have no idea what he did to fix it though. I'll try and use something else and hopefully he'll be on MSN soon so he can walk me through it.

[jonathan perez]

are your songs converted to MP3?

yeah, it probably moved because this is a subject worthy of BYOSB.

[Fuzzy-Train]

I tried just to rename it ".mp3" but nothing happened and I really suck when it comes to computers man. For some reason it only seems to play when I open it up in my recording program.  Here's what it says is the problem when trying to open it with media player or winamp:

"the file you are attempting to play has an extension that does not match the file format. playing the file may result in unexpected behaviour" then it asks if I still want to play, I click yes, and then this pops up "windows media player cannot play the file. The player might not support the file type, or might not support the codec that was used to compress the file" And in winamp it just doesn't play it at all, no pop ups or anything. Then when I click "more information" it says it's "Error ID = 0xC00D1199, Condition ID = 0x00000000"

[jonathan perez]

because you renamed it, the programs wont recognize it. do you have itunes? if not, get it. then try and figure out how to export the file to itunes, and from there you can convert it to MP3.

are you using PC?

[Seljer]

Its not possible to just rename it and change the file into a different format. You have to re-encode it as an mp3 file.

I think if you use Cubase it should have an "export as mp3" or "save mixdown as mp3" or something along those lines...

[Fuzzy-Train]

Alrighty.... exporting the files worked, now how the hell to I upload these clips to mysapce? I've never delt with myspace before, and for some stupid reason in the first 30seconds of making the account I already have a friend

[jonathan perez]

yeah, thats Tom.  youve got to start a BAND profile, though, not a regular account.

[Fuzzy-Train]

This whole Myspace crap is giving me a headache lol. I click on a link to change my file to a band file but it doesn't look like it's changed anything. I still can't add any songs.

[jonathan perez]

i think you have to start one from scratch. 

[Seljer]

Never used myspace but I've had luck with http://www.dmusic.com/ for simple soundclips...

[Fuzzy-Train]

Ok, for some reason they play fine on my computer but when I try to play them from dmusic nothing happens.

Here's the link... is it playing for any of you?

http://tch.dmusic.com/

[uan]

i can't play the soundclips. but i think i know your problem because we have the same problem. I did ask the same thing before but didnt get any solution except someone has saying that "its a normal thing when we play high notes with low pass filter (heal down), so the sound would getting muted"..

now my wah still has the same problem after many times of tweaking.. now what i'm thinking is the modification we've done need the transistor to be rebiased.. so we need to use trimpot. What do you think?

-newbie try to help-

[jonathan perez]

why would the transistors need to be rebiased?