A/DA Flanger does TZF?

[StephenGiles]

Sounds a great idea Mark.

[moosapotamus]

Yeah, that does sound like a fun idea.

Just out of curiousity; did you end up making this a 2 sided board?

Yes, I'm replacing almost all of the jumpers with traces on the top of the PCB.

~ Charlie

[moosapotamus]

This is just a taste, because I know it's been a while and it's all been just talk, so far. But, this will at least give y'all an idea of how far along things are...

Preliminary Layout

It may not look like much to some, but there's a lot of work in there, and still lots to be done... insert a few missing traces, correct footprints (especially for proper cap types and sizes), insert pads to allow all those mods, etc... I've also tried to compact the layout as much as possible to keep the cost down. In fact, it could probably still be a bit smaller. But at this stage, with an order of 10 boards, the cost would be ~$25 each. For 20 boards, the cost goes down to a little over $20 each. I don't know about anyone else, but I doubt I could etch a board like this myself (5 traces underneath an IC is pretty tight).

Anyhow, I know there are some errors and ommissions in there. It's still a work in progress. But, as you can see, it is starting to take shape.

~ Charlie

[oldschoolanalog]

Words cannot describe the Joy I am feeling looking at this!!! 
Thank You would be the understatement of the year, but, Thank You!!!

[oldschoolanalog]

Not having the bypass switch on the board seems to have freed up a nice little piece of real estate in the lower left hand corner. Hmmm...

[Horace]

This is looking great so far, thank you for the hard work you are putting into this !
I would very happily pay over $25 for a PCB.

[KB]

Hi Charlie

That is really starting to look something.  This is something I would never dream of attempting ~ I lack the knowledge and skill to do this.  I appreciate the time and effort you are making.

Kevin

[StephenGiles]

That is a work of art Charlie - why spoil it by soldering components to it. A great many people are not aware of the artforms which exist in music electronics. A well drawn circuit diagram for instance will look good in a frame on the wall. My wife is inclined (only inclined though!) to agree with me.

[oldschoolanalog]

Now that I've wiped up all the drool; are any comments/ideas welcome ?

[jmasciswannabe]

wow....looks great and even better you eliminated my biggest fear.....

I don't know about anyone else, but I doubt I could etch a board like this myself (5 traces underneath an IC is pretty tight).

I will definitely order one if they are available!!! Happy Halloween!

Ian

ps - on a very, very side note....did anything come of that live vocal pedal with the xlr and mixer that you were talking about a while back?

[markusw]

Wow, great work Charlie! Quite some progress already! 

BTW, what are the board dimensions?

Markus

[moosapotamus]

Now that I've wiped up all the drool; are any comments/ideas welcome ?

Absolutely!

BTW, what are the board dimensions?

5.6" x 3.65", at the moment. I think it could still be made a bit smaller, too.

~ Charlie

[oldschoolanalog]

Just one suggestion. Re-orient the V reg, 470uf cap, and diode to make as much room as possible in the lower left hand corner. This would be a good place to put a daughter board. IMHO, its better to have the space and not need/use it; than to need the space, and not have it. Now a couple of questions. What do you think the approx. current drain of this unit will be? And, on a related note, is it too early to discuss op amp selection?
As always, Thanks for all your efforts!

[moosapotamus]

...make as much room as possible in the lower left hand corner. This would be a good place to put a daughter board.

Definately! I think one of the main things would be the second delay line for the TZF mod. I don't have a circuit for that. But, if folks could post their ideas for that, we could iron out the details and I could try squeezing it into that lower left corner.

The other thing to maybe squeeze in down there is the additional output buffer circuit for stereo outputs. Markus posted an idea for that a few pages back.

Yet another option would be to just fill the open area(s) with perf or vero, which would leave the options wide open to use that open area for whatever experiments or mods you can dream up.

What do you think the approx. current drain of this unit will be?

I have no idea... anyone else?

And, on a related note, is it too early to discuss op amp selection?

A few pages back, there is a link to a thread where Stephen posted a really great build report. I was planning to follow his lead on opamp selection.

~ Charlie

[moosapotamus]

BTW...

Stephen,
You brought up the idea of adding 'bounce' as a mod, and I came across this drawing that you made of the CV section from the AMS100...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/StephenGiles/bnce_clock.gif

Do you think that could work in the ADA? I'm guessing you would just need the lower section with the four 324 opamps, but not sure how/where to stick it in... after the range pot?

I just took another quick glance at the Storm Tide...
http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_storm_tide_flanger.html

...and, think I need to mull that over for a bit, too.

In addition to the 'bounce' mod, I think I also really like Jürgen's TZF idea - to add an insert for a second (external) delay instead of a dedicated, built-in delay line.

~ Charlie

[markusw]

The other thing to maybe squeeze in down there is the additional output buffer circuit for stereo outputs.

This would be my personal preference I think that the second delay line will require some experiments. I suppose a BL3207 would be preferred over a SAD1024
Most likely one pot for setting the delay would be sufficient (provided it's a fixed delay). Also I fear that the space on the lower left corner might be a bit too small to have the BBD plus driver plus associated parts.

I think I also really like Jürgen's TZF idea - to add an insert for a second (external) delay instead of a dedicated, built-in delay line.

I like the idea too. One could either put the second delay line in a separate box or on a daughter board.

Recently I browsed once more through puretube's "guidelines" on having two separate delay lines in http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=25380.msg166584
Therefore I'd suggest to put the insert point somewhere around the output of IC1a (referring to Stephen's MI schem) to avoid the two BBD inputs interfering with each other. I didn't do this for my TZF Mistress and there is a low noise level when in TZF mode (seems to be caused by the two BBD inputs beeing connected more or less without separate filters/buffers; at least the noise is already present if I just connect the second delay line's input to the main board).

Some more Qs: Charlie, do you think it's possible to put the 5 pots in a line so that pcb mounting them would be easier? Do you plan to add the options for the blend pot and the ultra slow LFO switch?

Regards,

Markus

[moosapotamus]

Some more Qs: Charlie, do you think it's possible to put the 5 pots in a line so that pcb mounting them would be easier? Do you plan to add the options for the blend pot and the ultra slow LFO switch?

Yeah, Markus. I'm going to try rotating the pads for the the threshold pot so they line up with the other pots. The blend pot option is a definate 'yes'. But, I'm going to need some guidance on the LFO speed switch. Do you know what component(s) in the LFO are determining the maximum/minimum speed?

~ Charlie

[StephenGiles]

Yes, stick the bounce after the range pot. It should work, but don't forget the ADA power is +15v and 0v. The bounce is + & -15v so you need to adapt it.

[oldschoolanalog]

In a VERY oversimplified way of explaining; doubling the value of the cap in the integrator section of the LFO will halve the speed.  f(in Hz)=1/4R1C x (R2/R3)   R1 is the totat R (Pot & fixed resistor) between schmitt trigger output and integrator input. C is the integrator cap. R2 is the R in the schmitt trigg feedback. R3 is the R between the schmitt trigg input and the oscillator output. I just want to thank my EE buddy, Len for explaining this to me. Useful stuff. Hope it helps!

[oldschoolanalog]

This just in. After doing a bit of # crunching, I believe the correct values for R1 & C should be the ones in Mr. Giles schematic. The Rev 4 #s just dont work out right. This wouldnt be the first time a schem had the incorrect values, so...  Anybody else??