A/DA Flanger does TZF?

[Ry]

I would much prefer a box, even if it's pretty large.

[moosapotamus]

I agree that the stock PCB should fit in a DD sixe box.
Of course that would not prevent someone from building it into a rack enclosure if they wanted to.

Same for adding the mods... could probably be the builder's choice, D size box or rack enclosure.

~ Charlie

[moosapotamus]

OK, still gathering my thoughts on this and going back over the discussions...

There's a few things I'm not seeing in Rob's corrections to Stephen's schematic.
Sorry if some of them are kinda dumb... Am I mixed up on any of these?

Stephen, there's a couple of trivial errors on there as well:
-  470R near IC4a goes to ground not +15V power
-  47R near lower IC3c goes to ground not +15V power
-  10R near IC8 goes to ground not +15V power
- IC1a, has power symbol instead of ground
- IC4a doesn't have a ground for it's power connection
- IC2a missing power connections
- IC3a missing power connections,
  one of the IC3c's is presumably IC3a but neither of the IC3c's has power
Doesn't the lower IC3c get power through the 47R (R62 on Rev4 scheme)?
- The 4u7 tantalum should be a have a polarized symbol
Right... C2 on Rev4 scheme?
- The output cap should be polarized?
Wouldn't a non-polarized cap be fine, perhaps even a nice metal or poly film type?
- The digital ground should connect back to the analog ground at some/one point
I see how this is done on the Rev4 scheme and layout, but isn't it good practice to keep them separated?
- Are IC's 5, 6, 9 supposed to be powered from +15V?
  looks funny that they connect to the analog power.
On the Rev4 scheme, IC5 and IC6 are shown connecting to +15V.
Would that be a problem to put them all on +15V (I haven't looked at the datasheets, yet)?
Many people will automatically filter out these trivial things.

On the Rev4 scheme there is also a resistor (R47) going to ground between IC4a and IC4b that I don't see on Stephen's drawing. Was this left out intentionally or have I missed it?

On the subject of mixing all the outputs of the SAD1024, I'm inclined to go with only mixing pins 5 and 12 through the 1k trimmer, per Mike's adaptation, as shown on Stephen's drawing. My thinking is that this option provides for some adjustments to be made, while mixing pins 5, 6, 11, 12 through fixed resistors does not. Anyone looking at this differently?

I'm still thinking 18V wallwart for power. I'm also thinking (ouch!) that in the space that was originally used for the on-board power transformer you could fit a PSU circuit using the same Maxim power chip that's used in the Dunlop DC brick power supply (I don't remember the number, but I have one at home). I think that would not only give you regulated power for the ADA, but also allow you to build in several 9V and 18V outputs to power the other pedals on your board.

Yeah... OK, maybe that's not a "must have". But, it might be kinda cool.

~ Charlie

[LP Hovercraft]

If that Maxim chip doubles the DC voltage by means of charge pumping, I wouldn't recommend using it at all-I know the MAX1044's switch puts off a high frequency that will heterodyne with your delay clock.  After many hours of trying many different clock speeds out of the MAX1044 to get the noide to go ultrasonic, I gave up because I was still getting AM radio noise out of the background, but that was with an Electric Mistress.

[KB]

Maybe some thought should also be given to other possible delay chips?  Given the recent buy up of SAD1024 chips, it appears that they are in very short supply.  I just ordered one from Small Bear, who has it in stock again.  I was quoted € 30 a chip by Banzai when I enquired if they have any, they have taken the chip off their webpages.

I think it was Stephen who pointed out previously that the Morley sapphire flanger used a MN3207 and a similar LFO to the A/DA flanger.  Maybe this would give similar results if correctly tweaked?

Also does the fixed delay for the tzf option have to be a SAD1024, there was some discussion previously on the TZF electric mistress thread (suggested by Stephen Giles, and explained by Mark Hammer) the use of an over clocked  BL3207, or MN3205 (Sorry cannot get the link to work) this could provied separation of the clock frequencies, or am I missing something.

Just some thoughts.

Kevin

[StephenGiles]

Let me point out again that my circuit works as is. You can call the changes what you like, but they are certainly not "corrections"!

[markusw]

On the subject of mixing all the outputs of the SAD1024, I'm inclined to go with only mixing pins 5 and 12 through the 1k trimmer, per Mike's adaptation, as shown on Stephen's drawing.

Since mixing 5 and 12 with equal resistors works in the Mistress I'm fine with the trimmer version too 

I'm still thinking 18V wallwart for power.

IMHO 18V wallwart + 15V regulator is the way to go. Also wouldn't want to risk having a high frequency generating charge pump in the box.

Re the sad104, since Stephen's ADA works with the SAD1024  I would like to go for it. At least I do not feel experienced enough to redesign the ADA for using another BBD.

For the fixed delay a BL3207 should be fine. Actually, it should need just an adaptation re clocking frequency. Maybe it will require a bit more filtering than the SAD1024 since there are not 2 Stages that can be run in parallel-multiplex mode to reduce noise clock.
Maybe someone with more experience can comment on this! 
Also I think that with separate ps filtering for each delay line heterondyning caused by overlapping clocking freq ranges shouldn't be a huge problem...at least I didn't experience any issues with the TZF Mistress.


Markus

[KB]

Hi Stephen

I was not trying to imply that anything was wrong or needed correcting with your schematic.  I was just pointing out that the SAD1024 is getting scarce.  Very scarce, implied from the email I got from Steve Daniels when I asked if he would be getting anymore in stock.

Versions 3 and 4 of the ADA flanger used the MN3010, Mike Irwin adapted the circuit to SAD1024 in 2003, which you schematic is a version of.   Probably sooner than later the SAD1024 will go the same was as the MN3010 - rare than hen's teeth...

It just seems a shame to waste all the work being proposed here.

Kevin

[moosapotamus]

Let me point out again that my circuit works as is. You can call the changes what you like, but they are certainly not "corrections"!

Sorry for the semantic slip, Stephen.
I guess the questions were more about things that, as you already replied, are either assumed or not shown in your drawing, like the power supply and the separation/connection between the analog and digital grounds. So, I think that's all sorted out, at least in my mind, thanks to you and everyone else in this thread!

Yeah, nix on that Maxim chip idea. This'll be a straight-up 15V regulator circuit that will run on an 18V wallwart.

Time to start building the layout in ExpressPCB... finally.

~ Charlie

[StephenGiles]

Just when you thought it was safe to go outside - have you considered bounce?

[puretube]

envelope-controlled? 

[markusw]

envelope-controlled? 

evelope controlled....OK......... but what's bounce? 

Think we are definitely at the rack unit now.

[StephenGiles]

http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_storm_tide_flanger.html

[markusw]

http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_storm_tide_flanger.html

Another great read! Thanks   
Will have to read it a few times to understand what's going on 

[puretube]

it`s safe to go outside, now...

here it`s cold and wet, though...

[markusw]

Time to start building the layout in ExpressPCB... finally.

~ Charlie

Sorry that I won't be of much help within the next 2 weeks. Pretty busy workwise  and in addition I swore an oath to myself that I wouldn't start with a new project until my old ones are done.....even if it would be by far more interesting to start with the ADA.  There is still one more circuit from about one year ago that I really need to put in a box.
I hope that I can do at least some sims on the filtering to get an idea if an additional filtering stage might be needed for stereo out.

Seems the Eventide might easily find it's way to my to-do list, btw 

it`s safe to go outside, now...

if you refer to

Will have to read it a few times to understand what's going on

then you can go outside till about monday 

[StephenGiles]

it`s safe to go outside, now...

here it`s cold and wet, though...

We have had more rain here in England during the last week than the whole of the period from end of May to mid September, too windy for umbrellas!

[toneman]

Just the opposite here in Sacramento, Steven.
NO rain for the *entire* month of August.
VERY dry year   
Yes, i'm following this thread, just not much to add   
T

[moosapotamus]

Getting cooler, with occasional rain here in New England. And, the leaves have begun to turn.

But, it sure is raining in here... Envelope controlled bounce!?! Hey, then we really ought to add foldback too, right... I mean, since we're in the neighborhood anyway, right?

Hey, Markus. That daughter board is going to be bigger than the main circuit board!

Sorry that I won't be of much help within the next 2 weeks. Pretty busy workwise...

No sweat. I'm already on my way, but it might be almost that long before I have some images to proof, anyway. Might just need some feedback on where to include all those extra pads for the future mods.

~ Charlie

[Ry]

Moose,

I really appreciate the effort you're putting into this!  I just got all the parts from Mouser and an SAD1024 from Small Bear this week.  I'm not trying to rush you by any means, I'm just really excited to do this project.  I can wait as long as it takes.

Ry