Re: What's your favorite medium for pedals? Anyone else prefer perf/vero over PCB?

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

We've had this topic 1,000,000 times.. and each time I say "it depends on the project, it depends on the builders skills & personality, it depends how many you are making".
Personally, for one board or prototyping, I'm vero.

[Gilles C]

I'm Vero too...

Gilles

[KerryF]

I really love the simplicity of vero.  So I like to use vero most of the time, but I also like to perfboard some medium sized things for a challenge or for fun.

[Izzy]

what do you think about PAD PER HOLE?

If a  circuit has too many thing in SERIES rather than parallel isnt it easy to use PAD per hole rather than strip board?

[MetalGod]

I just use a prototyping board for messing around with circuits - that way you can just swap over compenents without any soldering.

[markm]

I etch EVERYTHING 
I prefer an etched PCB over any of the other methods mainly because it looks good, it makes the project more "bullet proof", debugging time is cut down considerably, and I find it to be much quicker.
It's just my preference however, it still makes me wonder why some here that struggle with the debugging process build after build don't choose a better method 
A verified layout etched to a PCB eliminates alot of potential build problems. 

[Meanderthal]

 I prefer PCB, however MAKING the pcb without a laserjet is way too much of a PITA. Soo, I prefer perf- NOT pad-per-hole, I mean PERF. I find Pad-per-hole makes for a sloppy build, it limits the size of your layout, way too easy to get a solder bridge, and it's a little more expensive. But with PERF you can have a very compact, efficient, neat looking layout and build.
Would somebody please explain to me how it's supposed to be so hard to debug a perf build? Jeeze, ya got yer parts on one side, yer connections on da other, dey all solder and desolder, SAME LAYOUT if you want, so what's the problem? I can see how pad per hole would be a pita, but PERF?
Vero scares me. All that stuff running paralell...

[markm]

Would somebody please explain to me how it's supposed to be so hard to debug a perf build?

Stick around awhile. 
Seems the ratio of perfbuild problems to PCB problems isn't quite even.

[petemoore]

  Perf forces you to think about the circuit, transferring the schematic data to a board necessitates it also be 'entered into' the mind for processing.
  The lesser...like hanging garden...aren't sturdy enough IMO for even an active stage, except the Cream Pie.
  All the other types work mostly the same, [ie either they're wired right and work or not, but will hold up well longevity wise] but are probably quicker than perfing.
  Having to think through a perfboard layout process can be seen as an advantage or disadvantage, it has both.
   

[Meanderthal]

 OK, yeah, I can see that- with perf it's not just paint-by-number. Easier to make a layout mistake on the build- with a pcb the layout is... already done for you. So I guess for debugging you also have to pay attention to the layout too... heh.
But, suppose you just want to build off a schematic, not a pcb (or other)layout... in a lot of cases you can just grab a piece of perf and... follow the schematic. IC's can present a challenge, but for discrete circuits this works out just fine. Kind of doing a layout on the fly- not possible with pcb or vero. 

[markm]

OK, yeah, I can see that- with perf it's not just paint-by-number. Easier to make a layout mistake on the build- with a pcb the layout is... already done for you. So I guess for debugging you also have to pay attention to the layout too... heh.
But, suppose you just want to build off a schematic, not a pcb (or other)layout... in a lot of cases you can just grab a piece of perf and... follow the schematic. IC's can present a challenge, but for discrete circuits this works out just fine. Kind of doing a layout on the fly- not possible with pcb or vero. 

Very True. 

[R.G.]

Like all questions about "What's your favorite *whatever*?" the answer is colored by what it is you usually try to achieve.

If all you want to do is see if a circuit works, it's very hard to beat breadboards for audio.

If you just want one of them to work and don't care about space, reliability, or speed, perfboard (which includes pad-per-hole) is nice.

If you want to get exactly one to work and not to think too much about how to wire the circuit inside, you want PCB or vero.

If you want to get other people to build them, you like vero or PCB.

If you want them to work first time, every time (OK, mostly...) you like PCB.

If you want them to be built by people who don't know much electronics or soldering and still work, you like PCB.

If you want people with modest skills to build them, you like vero if you're not selling anything, PCB if you sell PCBs.

If you do RF circuit, you like dots (See "prototyping techniques" at GEO for what "dots" are.)

If you do complex circuits, you like PCB.

If you build more than one of a circuit, you like PCB.

If you want to test a new circuit before going to PCB, you do either breadboard, perfboard, or vero.

If you go directly to PCB with a new circuit, you're either very new and inexperienced or very experienced indeed.

There is no one answer. And voting will not resolve the issue. The "best" way depends on (a) what you're trying to achieve, (b) how complicated the circuit is, (c) how many you're going to build, (d) who's going to build them, (e) how critical the performance of the circuit is, and (f) how long the result has to work reliably. I guarantee that you will "prefer" whatever best fits the set of those things that are in the back of your head.

I personally have done all of the above. The longer you do this kind of stuff, the more you need to know every possible manufacturing technique so you can select the right set of tools for what you're trying to achieve. The old saw about if your only tool is a hammer, you will approach every problem as if it's a nail is true. I once saw a guy with no wrenches hammer a bolt into a hole. It worked - for a while.  You need all the tools you can have, ready inside your tool box in the back of your head.

In the words of Robert Heinlein, specialization is for insects. People should be general.

[petemoore]

you can just grab a piece of perf and... follow the schematic. IC's can present a challenge
 Perfboard's with IC's look uglier than PCB's or vero's...
 Like the resistor had to stop and ask for directions...but still managed to miss the exit, around over here, then right turn, around and just missing the other lead after careful bending...necessarily as 'twisted an image' as a vero or PCB.
 Schematics, are the easiest to read. I'm getting better at 'untwisting' a vero layout into a linear schematic, [they're like 2d puzzles], many debugs provide vero layout link w/out schematic .

[Rafa]

PCB are the best for me
Hanging garden is good when experimenting with small projects
Rafa

[markm]

In the words of Robert Heinlein, specialization is for insects. People should be general.

[Meanderthal]

Like the resistor had to stop and ask for directions...but still managed to miss the exit, around over here, then right turn, around and just missing the other lead after careful bending...necessarily as 'twisted an image' as a vero or PCB.

ROTFL! I've been to THAT fork in the road a few times... worst case scenario you wind up with a socketed opamp with a resistor jumping right over top of it and soldered down tight! DOH! (now try swapping out the opamp)

[slacker]

For experimenting I use breadboard, if something's worth keeping I use vero. For small circuits I don't think it matters what you use, although I'm guessing building on vero or perf are quicker and easier than everything that's required to produce a single PCB.
I can see the advantages of PCBs for larger circuits, but I'd have to learn a whole new set of skills and invest more time and money to start using them.

[Ronsonic]

I always thought it was a national thing: Brits use vero and Americans build on perf. 


Ron

[Gilles C]

As with any technology, the more you use something, the better you are at it.

You can do a layout on the fly with Vero as easily as with perfboard, and in my case it is easier to do that with a stripboard than a perfboard. As I mentioned, it all depends on what you use more often.

Btw, it's a luck that wire-wraping is not used anymore. It would have been my choice too... I remember using wire-wrap on a Vero board. Boy, I feel old 

Gilles

[burnt fingers]

I'm a perf only guy badically because etching isn't a reasonable prospect in an apartment with my wife and 4 year old son.  This also could tie into another thread about the disposal of etchant.  I don't know that I would etch even if I had a workshop or a garage becasue there is still an issue of storing old etchant until you can dispose of it properly, and properly is the key word.  Where and how do you dispose of etchant without breaking the law or harming the environment.

All that said, it's pretty easy to pickup perfboard layouts.  I don't think it's any different than laying out a PCB, but you have to be willing to put in the time.  If you just want to download a layout and build somthing quickly, perf probably isn't your medium.  If you really want to understand the curcuit and learn a lot in the debugging process, get yourself some pad per hole board and a schematic and get to it. 

Scott