Can I run my digital stompbox with a gas generator?

[KMS]

Our power here in St. Louis County is out but we have a gas generator.  It is a Subaru... 5200watt with 6800watt max, Single Phase with both 220VAC and 110VAC output including a voltage regulator. 60Hz +/- 15%.

I have read somewhere that solid state and digital electronics require a particular type of gas generator to ensure proper frequency output.  The owners manual for the Subaru I mentioned above warns that using solid state and digital equipment "could" be damaged unless you buy their "Power Line Conditioner".

I'm thinking that the problem is when something kicks on like the blower for the furnace it causes the generator to ramp down (rpm) momentarily and then the governor adjusts and ramps it it back up (a little too much) and then the blower backs down power consumption once it reaches correct rpm and then the generator goes back to a continuous rpm.  When the furnace blower turns off.....the governor on the generator makes a slight adjustment and the rpm is back to normal.

My question is;  If we hook up our equipment (including digital stompboxes) and keep all electric demand constant, shouldn't the frequency also stay constant giving us 60Hz sine wave at 110VAC for our power source comming from the Subaru gas generator?

Am I missing something......is it that the generator has to be sine wave output and for some reason some generators are not sine wave output?

[R.G.]

I just wrote a pair of articles on generator operation of musical equipment in my monthly column in Musician's Hotline, so the considerations are fresh on my mind.

"Could be damaged" is correct. That should be read as "... will probably be OK under most circumstances, but if something odd happens it could kill your stuff."

Here are the articles from the archive:
Gigs on Generators, Part 1: http://www.musicianshotline.com/education/200610_educationcenter_techviews.asp

Gigs on Generators, Part 2: http://www.musicianshotline.com/education/200611_educationcenter_techviews.asp

The changes in frequency on your generator are probably not too tragic. However, you could get spikes that *will* kill your gear when things turn off. A refrigerator motor turning off can generate inductive spikes that a small electrical network like an isolated house will not absorb all of. Those spikes can damage your stuff - including your heating/AC fan motors, washing machine, electronically controlled blenders... if they don't get absorbed. Subaru was just warning you about that in a way that might get you to buy more of their stuff. It was not a specious warning.

For your particular situation, a household run on a generator, I like to put the transient absorbers in the house itself. I live at the end of a loooooong electrical transmission line and lightning is a problem out here. I have multiple whole house spike eating networks hooked up to the house and it really helps. I lost three intelligent thermostats to lightning transients before I put in the spike eaters, none since.

I use Cutler Hammer CHSP-Ultra whole house absorbers, and I have four of them in the house electrical network - but then, I'm a nut about not letting spikes kill things. They're about $50. You can also help protect your gear for cheaper with computer surge protector strips.

Read the articles, then ask questions.

[Meanderthal]

 The only way you can keep the demand constant is to not play... music has a dynamic range, and draws varying ammounts of current (especially the lows) right along with the...beat. Your digital equipment might find itself rebooting or scrambling itself repeatedly from rhythmic brownouts... I've had this happen using multiple(but lower wattage than yours) generators outdoors-seperate for stage, mains, and lights. When you remove the digital stuff the analog seems to get by ok. (no digital vocal effects or guitar rackmounts... oh well)
  We didn't have a line conditioner....

If the owner's manual says it can damage digital stuff... I think they might really mean it. It means they don't include the kind of protection that R.G. is talking about.

[KMS]

Thanks guys,

Nice articles R.G.

The generator is hooked up to my friends house right now but we plan to use it latter tonight.

We are planning on using the generator down at our studio (large pole barn style shed) where we won't have anything hooked up except the audio equipment and about 4 100watt lights and we won't be playing real loud.

We no longer have the large Peavey (PA900 on Peavey's 800 module amp).

All we have are one 45watt, two 150watt, two 200watt amps with another cumulative 200watt to 300watt misc devices......all power consumption ratings.  We could see some extra equipment come in if everyone shows up but it would not amount to more than another 1000watts of consumption.

We have kerosene heaters.

We also have a surge protector, the cheap one that comes with a computer power strip.

The generator is brand new......bought it yesterday......works great and we only hear the motor ramping up and down when the heater comes on.

I'm thinking we will be OK for these occasional power out events.

[pi22seven]

You ain't seen nothin' 'til you seen 3 full racks of Broadcast TV gear go up in smoke due to a bad jenny.

I could never get the burnt electronics smell out of my coat.

[Seljer]

I guess this is why people buy those power conditioners and such for their rack setups?

[heyniceguy]

you get the award for the most bizarre-sounding topic title ever in stompbox history. ever.

when i read it, i pictured a guy with a squier strat, an shiny new line6 Distortion Modeler, and a crappy crate SS amp. and a generator running, plugged into his pedal. and shouting over the sound of the motor....

"I READ ON THIS ONE MESSAGE BOARD THAT THIS IS HOW TO GET TRUE TUBE SOUND OUT OF THIS PEDAL"

[KMS]

As in many cases on this forum we don't get to read what the final outcome is, so just to keep everyone up to date.....we used the 5200watt Subaru generator and had no problems at all....but keep in mind we are only using a little less than half of the rated power output.  We had everything powered up for six hours.  We could not detect any fluctuation in the generator at all....in fact it was more stable than the crappy Power we are used to.

Thanks again.....

[Ronsonic]

It really, really is a good idea to run your low power and digital stuff from some sort of controlled, regulated supply. As a bench tech the words I most often hear at the counter are (in rough order):

#5 -  "I borrowed this from a friend and .... "

#4 -  "I let my buddy borrow this and ...."

#3 -  "Generator Show"

#2 -  "Lightning"

#1 - "I just got this on eBay."

Ron

[R.G.]

#5 -  "I borrowed this from a friend and .... "
#4 -  "I let my buddy borrow this and ...."
#3 -  "Generator Show"
#2 -  "Lightning"
#1 - "I just got this on eBay."

Yep. It was #3 and #2 that led me to write the articles for Musician's Friend. I think they're good reading for anybody that plays outdoors generator powered gigs.

[PenPen]

I've been without amp since the storm you speak of. I live just across the river in Belleville, and right now my power lines are lying in my yard with four big branches on them. Luckily my neighborhood does have power, and ONE of the lines works, so I have half of my breaker box working. I have a working furnace at least. I have very limited outlet space so I can't hook up the amp to play, so it's all acoustic right now. I did hook up the computer because I work from home on it. This past week has sucked.

Where did you get the generator, btw? All of the places selling them over hear all jacked the prices up, so what they formerly had on the shelf for $600 they are selling for $800. So most are just making due without. Is there some place over the river that has them for a decent price?

[KMS]

Well if your in the St. Louis metro-east then you could still be without power....8 days now......whewww Ameren needs to start trimming those trees in the summer to cut down on all this "crap" they are feeding the media about how this is the worst storm since the death of Christ!....bulllllllllmanuer...I have seen worse than this in the St. Louis area.

UE never had folks out more than 3 days since 1960 and usualy had them back on in couple of hours.

I live in Ellisville MO....St. Louis County.

I called Ameren and complained 5 years ago (during good wheather just after a minor storm where my power was out for the 6th time in 2001). Prior to my call I walked the circuit and made a good assessment of the needed work. Most of the circuit was in disrepair concerning the tree trimming but I did see some signs of trimming, probably trimmed during the recent storm.

Then I called and the customer service representative said, "they don't do preventative tree trimming"...................did you get that!   Soooooo.....I asked for a manager and told the manager that I had made a survey of the needed work and quoted some of the real bad spots and I told her that their Tariff requires that they do preventive tree trimming.....she said....but property owners won't let us in their yards......I said.......I did not have problems walking the entire circuit but you mean to tell me that your lines are on private property with no easement?....she said ....no we have easements but the property owners aren't compliant........I said.....then put them in jail and trim the trees or I'm calling the Public Service Commission.....she said....wait a minute I think we can get a crew out there by the end of next week......I said I'll wait 3 days and then I' making the call............she pleaded with me not to make the call......I told her I would wait 3 days and hung up.

The next day they had four crews trimming my circuit which took them 2 weeks to complete the trimming....it's a big circuit...some of the neighbors were pissed and I dug into them verbally telling them what idiots they are....

They have been back to trim the trees three times since that call and I have not been without power since the call even in this storm and the one this summer too. So the real problem is that they don't maintain their lines....I have prooven that....without a doubt.


Call them and complain about the tree trimming when they get all caught up and tell them your are going to call, the Public Service Commission (or whatever it is called in Ill) if they don't do it right way......your problems will be solved...at least on your circuit. You need to walk the circuit first so you will be able to quote the locations of problem areas....which you will find as the Ameren representative told me that Ameren does not do preventative trimming.

I have told my band mates to do the same thing...but they just sit there in the dark like fools and forget about it when the wheather is good.  That's why we needed the Generator for practice last week.

We got the Generator at Sam's Wholesale Club for $650.


Hey dude.......we need to get together and jam....we are looking for a rhythm/lead guy too...if your right for us and we are right for you of course.

How about it?

This is in responce to;

I've been without amp since the storm you speak of. I live just across the river in Belleville, and right now my power lines are lying in my yard with four big branches on them. Luckily my neighborhood does have power, and ONE of the lines works, so I have half of my breaker box working. I have a working furnace at least. I have very limited outlet space so I can't hook up the amp to play, so it's all acoustic right now. I did hook up the computer because I work from home on it. This past week has sucked.

Where did you get the generator, btw? All of the places selling them over hear all jacked the prices up, so what they formerly had on the shelf for $600 they are selling for $800. So most are just making due without. Is there some place over the river that has them for a decent price?

[PenPen]

Well, I do finally have power back, it came back on yesterday. I swear I HATE Ameren. Back when it was Illinois Power, we NEVER had any problems, and they were on it IMMEDIATELY when lines went down. They were cheaper too. But then Ameren bought them out and I've had soaring energy bills and extended outages. It really ticks me off. I signed a petition to the city to block them from being able to jack up rates more, and I've heard cases locally where they overcharged the number of units consumed in SEVERAL cases. It is total crap, and the IL state gov is opening an investigation into how they mishandled this event. Pure crap.

As far as the jamming goes, PM me some info as to what style and influences you guys have, and we'll see what works out. I work a lot but perhaps I can make some time to at least jam once.