Insanity Box not working :( help!

[drazenmob]

Hello!
I need help with Insanity Box.
This is my first diy stompbox project.
I've made it and it wont work.
I get bypass sound and that's ok(wiring is good then) but when i turn it on, output signal is extremely weak(almost none).
I hear some weak signal, pots for volume and tone are working when i try them (i hear changes in sound) but gain pot doesnt changes anything when rotated.
---
These days I checked everything- solderings & stuff, i changed the legs of bf245c and all the other stuff.
Haven't got a clue what is wrong...  Could it be TL071 or maybe CD4049?
I've tried that sound probe checking but i dont know what is problem, because everywhere i touch on pcb there's sound.
Please help me if you can somehow!
Thanx in advance!

[axeman010]

Hello and welcome !

May I suggest that you follow this................

DEBUGGING - What to do when it doesn't work

You will find it at the top of the Forum.

It will either allow you to resolve the problem yourself or allow other to help.

Good luck

Axeman

[drazenmob]

I hope this will help you to see what's the problem



1.What does it do, not do, and sound like? when i turn it on, output signal is extremely weak(almost none). And of course,no distortion.

2.Name of the circuit = Insanity Box by Aron Nelson

3.Source of the circuit (URL of schematic or project) =

4.Any modifications to the circuit? Yes

5.Any parts substitutions? They are presented on picture

6.Positive ground to negative ground conversion? i think no

7.What is the out of circuit battery voltage? => 9.40v

Voltage at the circuit board end of the red battery lead = 9.40v

Voltage at the circuit board end of the black battery lead = 0v

Now, using the original schematic as a reference for which part is which (that is, which transistor is Q1, Q2, etc. and which IC is IC1, IC2, C1, and so on) measure and list the voltage on each pin of every transistor and IC. Just keep the black lead on ground, and touch the pointed end of the red probe to each one in turn. Report the voltages as follows:

Q1 BF245c (i've positioned legs of BF245c to match MPF102 D-G-S)
D = 9.40v
G =9.39v
S =9.40v

Q2 BF245c
D= 9.40
G= 6.30
S= 9.40

TL071
P1 9.37v
P2 8.90v
P3 8.90v
P4 9.38v
p5 9.37v
P6 9.37v
P7 9.39v
P8 0v


CD4049Ube
P1 9.39v
P2 8.89v
P3 8.89v
P4 8.88v
P5 9.40v
P6 8.88v
P7 9.40v
P8 9.38v
P9 9.40v
P10 8.88v
P11 9.40v
P12 8.88v
P13 0v
P14 8.85v
P15 8.89v
P16 0v

D1
A (anode, the non-band end) = 9.03v
K (cathode, the banded end) = 9.39v

D2
A = 9.03v
K = 9.39v

[drazenmob]

I've measured electrolytic capacitors and one (22uf) shows voltage on the (-) pin is more positive than the voltage on the (+) pin 
maybe that's the problem? 

[drazenmob]

PLEASE HELP ME SOMEHOW!

[bancika]

I think it should read 0V at - side of that electrolyte

[slacker]

Theres something wrong with your ground connections. Pin 4 of the TL071 should be 0 volts. The negative side of the 22uF capacitor is attached to the same PCB trace as pin 4 of the TL071 so that should be 0 volts as well.
Check the board for solder bridges or something touching between the 9 volt traces and the ground traces.

Hope you get it sorted

[slacker]

Actually unless you've labelled the pins of the TL071 and CD4049 wrong or got your meter leads the wrong way round then you've got the battery leads the wrong way round. You've got power going to pin 4 of the TL071 and pin 8 as ground. They should be pin 8 power, pin 4 ground.
It's easy enough to swap the battery leads over, but the bad news is you've probably destroyed the TL071 and possibly the CD4049.

[aron]

Yes, those IC voltages are all off. I wonder if there's a short on the board or?

[drazenmob]

Thank you all guys for replying!
I will check all  things that you've mentioned.

i've read the voltages on the chips counter-clockwise
like here on the pic

[drazenmob]

Im back.
Wires from battery are ok, i checked them again. Red wire soldered to V+ on board and black wire on the input jack.
I don't know why im having voltage on ground traces. I checked traces and found a broken line and nothing else.
Nothing is touching ground traces or something else connected with ground.
Fixed that broken line and checked again. again there's voltage on ground
Also i checked voltages in all traces on PCB and all have voltage ONLY  trace from input wire has 0v.
Huh... i don't know....
Maybe TL071 is destroyed earlier and now there's voltage on the ground?

[slacker]

Forget what I said earlier about power going to pin 8 of the TL071 I was wrong it's pin 7. Just thought I'd point out my mistake before anyone else did.
Are you testing with something plugged into the input jack? If not you'll get funny readings, because the ground is only connected when a plug is the input jack.
Just to make sure there's nothing wrong with your wiring try removing the DC jack and connecting the battery leads straight to the board.

[drazenmob]

Forget what I said earlier about power going to pin 8 of the TL071 I was wrong it's pin 7. Just thought I'd point out my mistake before anyone else did.
Are you testing with something plugged into the input jack? If not you'll get funny readings, because the ground is only connected when a plug is the input jack.
Just to make sure there's nothing wrong with your wiring try removing the DC jack and connecting the battery leads straight to the board.

Oh! i was testing it without pluging input jack. how stupid of me!
And one more thing i forget to mention i haven't include DC jack in wiring i only use 9v battery.
I will now check all with plugged input jack and get back to you ASAP!
and thanx slacker!

[drazenmob]

Back again!
I was checking wiring and i found a mistake!
i could not believe that i missed it earlier!
Wires on input jack were false connected...
I switched black wire from battery with ground wire which goes onto board. Was that fatal for circuit?
Now my readings are different but i think they're not as they should be, again. Because ground trace isnt 0v still 


Q1 BF245c
D = 9.25v
G =9.03v
S =9.23v

Q2 BF245c
D= 9.27
G= 6.13
S= 9.25

TL071
P1 9.03v
P2 9.03v
P3 8.55v
P4 9.03v
p5 9.03v
P6 9.03v
P7 9.27v
P8 0v


CD4049Ube
P1 9.27v
P2 8.56v
P3 8.56v
P4 8.60v
P5 9.27v
P6 8.60v
P7 9.27v
P8 9.03v
-
P9 9.27v
P10 8.60v
P11 9.27v
P12 8.60v
P13 0v
P14 8.53v
P15 8.55v
P16 0v

D1
A (anode, the non-band end) = 8.68v
K (cathode, the banded end) = 9.04v

D2
A = 9.04v
K = 8.68v

[drazenmob]

I've measured it again and i think this time is good. Ground is finaly 0v !!!
But i'm not getting any sound out.
What could be now?

Q1 BF245c (i've positioned legs of BF245c to match MPF102 D-G-S)
D = 8.52v
G =2.87v
S =7.12v

Q2 BF245c
D= 7.11v
G= 0v
S= 3.58v

TL071
P1 0.14v
P2 3.24v
P3 2.91v
P4 0v
p5 0.14v
P6 4.27v
P7 8.53v
P8 0v


CD4049Ube
P1 6.56v
P2 2.68v
P3 2.68v
P4 0.01v
P5 6.54v
P6 0v
P7 6.54v
P8 0v
P9 6.53v
P10 0v
P11 6.53v
P12 0.01v
P13 0v
P14 2.59v
P15 2.67v
P16 0v

D1
A (anode, the non-band end) = 0v
K (cathode, the banded end) = 1mv

D2
A = 1mv
K = 0v

[slacker]

Cool, I think the voltages look alright. Have you tried adjusting the trimpots? trims 1 and 4 are basically volume controls, so if they're turned all the way down you'll get no sound.

[drazenmob]

Cool, I think the voltages look alright. Have you tried adjusting the trimpots? trims 1 and 4 are basically volume controls, so if they're turned all the way down you'll get no sound.

HEY ! im getting sound out of it!
its working!
thanx slacker!
but there's no much of distorted sound... what to do to get it?

[drazenmob]

Okay it's working now, i have output signal. Now the problem iz somekind of hiss - radio like...
and it changes when i move my hand around the board. How to solve this ? to mute that hissing.
Maybe i need to use coaxial cable (for onboard wiring)?

[Cliff Schecht]

Honestly, I built one of these and it isn't a very good sounding circuit. I tried quite a few mods and even designed my own layout for it (to better fit a 1590BB), but I could never get a very pleasant sounding distortion out of it. I was looking for a different tone at the time though, so maybe I should plug the thing back in...

[aron]

Cliff,

Did it sound like this?


http://www.ampage.org/sounds/files/inSus.aiff.mp3

http://www.ampage.org/sounds/files/inMed.mp3

http://www.ampage.org/sounds/files/inFull.mp3