How to deal with hopelessly stuck screws?

[JimRayden]

I'm STILL attempting to open the EU-Hammond BB, no luck yet. The f'd up screws have hopelessly closed it for ages to come. Are there any tricks to try before I just brutally drill 'em out?

I'll have to say again that these boxes are real disappointments.

----------
Jimbo

[fixr1984]

What sometimes works is to take the closest fitting screwdriver
that fits and give it a few good taps into the screw with a hammer.
That gives it a little shock that will sometimes free them up.
Or if you have a propane torch handy you could heat up a little
bit around the housing where the screw is located. Hopefully that would
expand the box enough to loosten its grip on the screw.

[MartyMart]

Try a tiny piece of "Blu-Tack" in the f***ed screw head and use the right size driver
it may catch enough to get a turn started, or even some "Bondo" and shape it with
the screw driver before it dries !!

MM

[JimRayden]

Too late for tips, I just literally jumped on top of things, used my body mass to make the screwdriver interdigitate (that's the word, right?) with the screws. After ten minutes of struggling, I finally was able to remove the lid to reveal the logo:

EDDYSTONE



Next task is to make the holes bigger for screws from an old Chinese-BB pedal. Any pointers?

---------
Jimbo

[grapefruit]

Did you ever get the original screws all the way in? Some of the asian boxes I use are a bit tight. I've found tap magic for aluminium to make it easy to get the screws in. Lanolin or something like that may work to some degree too.

If you do need to make the holes biggger it should be easy enough to do on the drill press if you have enough meat left on the box. Otherwise use smaller screws.

Cheers,
Stew.

[bancika]

I had the same problem recently. I got large aluminum enclosure for tube preamp that had 6 screws and it came with screws in. I couldn't open the damn thing for days. Aluminum can get quite sticky to screws over time. I tried freezing damn thing, warming it up but nothing worked....it took me a few days to open and it needed much force

[JimRayden]

Did I ever? They were screwed in when I bought it, unlike the asians that have a little baggie of screws inside the box.

Today's the first time I see that box open, though I bought it over a month ago.

I had the same problem recently. I got large aluminum enclosure for tube preamp that had 6 screws and it came with screws in. I couldn't open the damn thing for days. Aluminum can get quite sticky to screws over time. I tried freezing damn thing, warming it up but nothing worked....it took me a few days to open and it needed much force

I used the exact same technique, Bancika.

---------
Jimbo

[petemoore]

  These ugly RACo's made it easy for me to work up my pedalboard chain. The plates each mount to pedal frame with a couple screws, boxes removed from pedal frame mounted plates with just 2 screws, loosened...it's easy to remove/tweek/reroute the units as desired. the screws take most screwdrivers, and don't need to be removed.
 I went to 'frame technology' for easy plate mounting and access to loosen raco box coverplate screws...some room for sliding the box out, and for sliding the plugs in...actually, I have to remove some of the middle mounts to unplug them.

[Gus]

You can get spark plug to Al anti seize at an autoparts store.

[markm]

I use a small dab of lithium grease which is impervious to moisture and will help prevent corrosion which is probably what makes the screw stick in the hole in the first place.

[gez]

After ten minutes of struggling, I finally was able to remove the lid to reveal the logo:

EDDYSTONE

I use these boxes pretty much exclusively these days.  Yes, they come with the lids screwed down and yes, they're impossible to remove if you don't use the right tools for the job

However, if you do use the right tools (from the outset), they come out with ease (see last thread of yours).

PS  You can get a drill attachment from Axminster that removes stuck screws (bores into them and pulls them out - clever design).

[JimRayden]

I'm still put off by the awful edges of the box and lid, as I don't have a power sander at hand.

I think I'll let my brother bring me a pile of SmallBearian taiwanese boxes next time he visits home from the states. Afterall, aluminium is aluminium, whereever it's made.

----------
Jimbo

[gez]

I'm still put off by the awful edges of the box and lid, as I don't have a power sander at hand.

Yes, that is one of the downsides to these boxes.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

There is stuff (I believe it is a suspension of carborundum grit in oil) that you put on the screwhead (just a drop). Then it increases the friction by about 5 times between the screwdriver bit & the remains of the screwhead.
I've actually removed security screws using an ordinary philips driver with this technique. It's a great help.

Maybe you could make your own with oil & a very coarse valve grinding paste.

[petemoore]

  I'm better at not stripping screws mosltly.
  Give up instantly, or after you think you've tried enough with that bit, if you think a better fitting bit might help.
  Just wiggling the tip in the screw tells alot about what type of pressure, what the ratio between downward and rotational pressure should be etc. Not all screw heads are created equal.
  I got some garbage with a set of 12 usd tuner heads. some kinda old mold lookin', half filled <phillipshead crosses, the best tool for these is the wrong tool, a flat tip screwdriver or pliers. Forget all that and get some screws that look and feel like decent screws.
  Gotta love it when you get screws that are sharp looking and point straight with a screwdriver holding them. Like the ones that just about can grab the screwdriver out of your hand...the tip out of the screwdriver!
  Thing is if you're really pushing down and turning hard, that's when you can take all four CCW phillips screwhead shoulders right off of there.
  Might sound funny.
  Run the mass around the screw threads under a hot water tap, or somehow gently heat it up say 150 degrees or so. try the screw,  Take same box, stick it in the freezer for 10 minutes or more. Whack the corner, use something to try to knock the top 'across' the bottom and back again, if you can even get a tiny bit of flexing/movement between the two pieces, the screw will tend to naturally turn toward out.
  Aluminum has pretty good expansion/contraction rate, I'd guess heating/cooling even a little like that would/might cause enough loosening to make it easier to loosen them...could have been a really cold day when the screws went in.
  Thing with metal is there are conditions of pressure which can sometimes be used to make it do what you want, but tensile strength/friction...stuff like that can be hard to pre-estimate.
  Smakkin' the box to near break pressures, on each corner from both angles? no?
  Perhaps a right handed rubber hammer, or a [clear handle type material hammerhead...metal workers hammer ICRC the name] hammer, box in other hand
  ...I'd try a short, very hard/high mass bench stop with the bottom plate laid in it's corner, then a hardwood as you can find or perhaps some type of hard plastic handle [like on a type of paint scraper], to distribute the whamming pressure to just the box corners at thread level...almost like your'e trying to shear it off...but mainly looking for side motion/thread wiggle, knock it around a little, try, knock it around some, try, knock it hard, try.
  a Try For nastily mangled screw drive heads, Drill into the head enough to make new shape for a shank with a tip shaped like a drill bit, JB Weld the *hard/stiff shank there, allow full dry time of 24+ hours, apply rotational force only. 
  OT
  I could get bolts after all 'Super-'Experienced mechanics said Can Not Be Pulled ! Must be dealt with in another way...You're wasting your Time with that !!!
  These Vise Grips have wide/flat front lips, right angles jaw corners L, short distance between the jaw front and the hinge, kinda looks like a parrot !
  A broken ended Manifold Bolt, about 1/4'' sticking out...gnarly already.
  *Adjust Vise Grips to super grip the nip you have left of the bolt head hard enough to reshape it into two shoulders, don't clamp on it yet [pick the best rotational angle for biting/gripping, across the shear, or 1/4 turn].
  Heat metal mass of manifold around the broken bolt threads to cherry color.
  Remove Vise grips fresh from freezer after 20 min freeze, directly push them up into the nip, hard, clamp carefully keeping each jaw pinned as deep as you can into the near molten sheared bolt shank protrusion, shaping two shoulders in it for turning the bolt after it has contracted [reduced size and separated slightly from the expanded mass of metal in which it is threaded].
  The super hot metal is still hot/expanded, the cold from the vise grips [leave them clamped to the sheared bolts new shoulders they just created for about 15-20 seconds] the Cold Mass is conducted and travels up the threaded bolt shank, cooling and contracting it, now it will [almost certainly, I only got to test the method twice] squeak out ReaL easily...or nothing will cause it to be removed, you just took off the 'end that can't be worked with'.
  Thing with metal is there are conditions of pressure which can sometimes be used to make it do what you want, but tensile strength/friction...stuff like that can be hard to pre-estimate.
 

[R.G.]

Go to an auto parts store - OK, OK, call first, because sometimes it's hard to find and get some "S'OK" (pronounced "soak") penetrating oil as well as some valve grinding grit or some sandpaper. Put a drop of the penetrating oil into each screw hole and leave it overnight. Get the screw holes clean, then get some grit into them from the valve gook or sandpaper.

Place the box on a firm support table about waist high, clean a matching screwdriver with acetone to get any oil off it, put it into a screw hole and LEAN INTO IT forcing the screwdriver bit into the screw HARD while you try to unscrew it. Be careful as if something slips, you can break a finger or stab yourself with the screwdriver.

If the screw heads protruded, you could cut a slot with a hacksaw and use a flatbladed screwdriver, but you probably don't have that option here.

If that fails, you have one more chance. Put the box into your refrigerator freezer and try it again when it's really frozen. Aluminum has a larger thermal coefficient of expansion than steel, so it may shrink the holes more than the screws. Maybe.

If that does not remove them, you are into tier 2 removal strategies. These require efforts about equal to the cost of the box. In tier 2, you will do things which destroy the screws and with luck do not destroy the box. The simplest is to take box and screws to a car parts place and ask them to EDM the screws out. "EDM" is "Electro-Discharge Machine", which uses electric sparks to eat the screws away to nothing. This will cost $10 - $50.

Another tier 2 is to use a drill press to drill a hole nearly the size of the minor diameter of the screw directly through the screw, and then optionally use an "easy-out" screw remover from a car parts place to remove the screw. Sometimes the screw will just come out when drilled. Drill press is mandatory for this.

Last tier 2 is chemical removal. If and only if your box is really, really, no fooling aluminum, you can drop a couple of drops of red fuming nitric acid into the screw hole. Steel corrodes almost like melting butter to nitric, but aluminum forms an impervious oxide. RFN will eat steel but leave the aluminum. Needless to say, RFN will eat YOU - fingers, lap, eyes, and lungs - as well or better than it eats steel, so this is an even more dangerous tier 2 technique.

[markm]

Great suggestions R.G.
Another very good penetrating fluid is PB Blaster.
Will free up anything !

[EdJ]

I don`t know if you have the stuff over there but in the Netherlands there you have IMAL(which stands for i make everything loose and it does really)Just spray it on,let it penatrate for 15minutes and loosen the screw.Maybe a small tap on the screwdriver but that`s it.
Wonderful stuff!

Ed

[theundeadelvis]

I would get a piece of wood and drill holes for all the knobs and switches to fit into so that the box itself is what is actually resting on the board. Now go to an auto parts store or Sears and get an impact driver for about $15 (not impact wrench). These babies work great (use them all the time on 70's Japanese motorcycles with ate up screws). You just set the driver in the screw like a screw driver and whack it with a hammer.