OT - Workhorse amps are available now

[Branimir]

Heh personally, I like one chanell amps! 4 knobs? Now that's my idea of an amp

Amp rant ahead...

During the non internet era (pre 94) and mid 90-ties, lots of amps were generally underrated and could be bought for small cash, take for instance any Sunn amp, Carlsbro, even Orange, etc etc... Okay I could question the reliabilty of some of the amps, but most of these thingies actually sounded very very good...

Nowadays, sunns and oranges went so up in the price department! 1000$ for a one channel non master volume 120W tube amp? You must be mad! That's right, it's the tone - that's been there for 30+ years, just some bloke from some famous band brought that amp to the stage and everyone started asking questions - "what's that amp", 5 mins later, newsgroups and bulletin boards were full of it, 10 mins later price of the amp went from 300$ to 800$, it's plain and simple.

How did Ibanez became so popular? With their nice guitars? Probably yes! But what sold them to the public, were Satriani and Vai first and foremost! Now every shredder today wants to own an Ibanez, but they make nice "regular" guitars like Artist series and such, these aren't so popular

Similiar thing happend to Fender. Jaguar and Mustang were actually considered crap at the time they came out, crap tuners, crap tremolo systems, and they soon put them out of production. There you have early 90's, bunch of indie guitarists using these axes, Cobain too, and soon kids began to search for these guitars, Fender started to produce them again...

R.G.'s amp could be the next great thing in amp business. Get some famous guitar bloke to use it or to advertise it, and you're half way there!

ps: I've seen the promo video (someone posted it in the lounge some time ago), and I totally respect the build approach, the ease of servicing, biasing, 9V supply, those things are here for ages and finally someone decided to do it, two thumbs up!

There are so many categories of musicians and it's impossible to please everyone... Touring bands will still use marshall stacks because they're reliable and road worthy, get the tone, repaired in every city.. On the other hand, there are numerous bands playing at a certain different level, that need gear that will get them excellent sound results, not just the work done by the end of the day, and these people will love Workhorses, will pay for them no matter how much they cost and hopefully attract more customers!

pps: I've been diy-ing pedals and amps for 7 years now, i'm 25, and only recently heard of Genz-Benz amps, what the heck are those? Apparently there is a whole subculture of ex-shredders that play weddings who worship these amps, as I work in a club as a soundguy, last two years I never saw this things, and I saw a bunch of different amps, even the anonymous Italian brands Guess I need to go some wedding featuring a band with a guitar shredder to hear genzbenz hehe
Apparently there is a market for those amps, easily there could be a market/genre of musicians that will buy Workhorses!

ppps: I hate when amps or effects feature led's behind the tubes to make the "glow" - four thumbs up for NOT doing that

[Pushtone]

OK, two questions for RG

1. Will you have any of the PONY's to sell at NAMM?

2. What is the Visual Sound booth number?

Oopps never mind found that one...


Company: Visual Sound LLC
Booth: 5721

[Antero]

Suggestion: Since one of the big advantages of the design you're selling is reliability, a video showing off the easy-repair parts and biasing and general durability would be pretty cool.  I mean, if you took one of them and hit the grille with a 2x4 or something crazy like that, and threw it up on youtube?   

[rockgardenlove]

^You know, that's not a half bad idea.

[Cliff Schecht]

R.G., here's my 2 cents.

I like one channel amps too, I'd much prefer a great sounding one channel amp to an alright sounding multi-channel amp. I run a '59 Bassman Reissue with about 14 pedals in front of it and while I might not be as loud as my jam buddies 120 Watt multi-channel tube heads (Peavey Ultra 120's), I know I'm sounding better. I've never liked effects loops either, they seem to take away much of the character from my pedals, which I rely on quite heavily during jams to get the different sounds that I like to play with.

I look forward to trying out these Workhorse amps, hopefully I'll be able to find one in Lubbock to play with. Where is the NAMM show being hosted this year (or is it in Austin every year)? I've been wanting to attend a NAMM show for years now, but I always put it in the back of my mind and forget about it. Someday...

Oh and I agree with the suggestion made earlier, black grilles on the Workhorse amps would really clean up the looks. Also, like someone else mentioned earlier, be sure to include information about how durable these amps were designed, that's a pretty important feature to most gigging musicians.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I had a look at the video & while it appeals to ME, I felt it was a bit negative in that the emphasis on ease of repair, could make ignorant people think that meant it was likely to break down (where we know it is the very opposite).
But focusing on the working musician, that's the thing.
"affordable, useable, maintainable"

[Dai H.]

although personally I prefer getting distortion from the amp (a typical Marshall circuit), R.G. is not alone in his thinking. Pete Cornish does a Marshall mod that turns a head into a clean amp so the tone can be mainly generated from effects for the same sorts of reasons (flexibility IIRC). So here is example of an experienced "name" guy with the same approach, but I think he charges an arm and leg for the mod. I don't know about the hubcaps though (although I'm sure they function well), just in terms of the look.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

All this fuss about the hubcaps confirms what I have always thought: on average, musicians are the most conservative people in the world.
(yeah, a few shining counterexamples on this board! but, overall... you're going to have to paint that chrome )

[Ry]

on average, musicians are the most conservative people in the world.

If you think musicians are conservative, you should work with aircraft manufacturers.

Not to hijack the thread too much, I'm drooling over these amps.  Luckily, there is a Visual Sound dealer in the Phoneix area other than Sam Ash!

[Barcode80]

i don't know why i need one of these at NAMM. i just realized visual sound is in spring hill, TN, which is about 45 minutes from me

[Cliff Schecht]

Where is Namm this year?

[Seljer]

Where is Namm this year?

the website says Anaheim, California

[sta63bmx]

If you put a bad rectifier tube or shorted-heater output tube into the AC30 or the boutique clones and turn them on, they will destroy a multi-hundred-dollar power transformer. Do the same thing to a Workhorse and it pops a $0.50 fuse. An intermittent speaker jack on a main-line amp can cause arcing on the output sockets and may kill your output transformer. On the Workhorses, it trips the transient-eating MOV across the output transformer primary.

This is what made me smile.  I understand why big companies making a million amps don't take the time to install features like this that add to the longevity and repairability of the amp, since bottom line pennies on a million unit line add up quick.  But it still pisses me off!  I have repaired a few amplifiers, and the first things to go in are always a high voltage secondary fuse and an output transformer fuse.  I see HV secondary fuses in some Marshalls, but never in a Fender.  And like you said, now you blow a filter cap or your speaker jack shorts and the amp dies...and you replace a part that literally costs pennies instead of shelling out a couple hundred dollars for a new transformer.  The old saying that I think of is "a stitch in time saves nine".  In other words, do a little work now (by installing extra fuses) and then when it goes in the toilet you'll be doiugn a quick, ceahp fix and not an expensive one.

I don't know what an MOV is.  Something over voltage?  I put a fuse in the HV feed to the OT and make it accessible on the back panel (usually taking up the spot of the old ground switch).  I figure the speaker cord might be broken or unplugged or something hinky might happen and pop that fuse real quick (I use fact-acting fuses there) and you can replace it and keep playing.  The HV secondary fuse is buried in the amp.  I figure if THAT one dies, you've got a blown filter cap or power tube or something bad and you're gonna have to take the chassis out anyways.

Thanks for thinking of the details like that.  I agree with the one channel thing anyways.  I do not own a channel-switching amplifier; I just use my pedals.  My cousin uses a HRD and hates the dirty channel, same thing.  It's a bunch of extra tubes costing you money and taking up space and not adding much benefit in some cases.

[Elektrojänis]

I don't think you can produce an amp without competing somewhat with amps already on the market.

I actually didn't mean it would not be competing with the existing stuff. I meant that in some cases it might be better to compete with a different set of features instead of competing with the same features that the competitors allready have (with the nice well known logo).

As far as the hubcaps go - I'm not sold 100% on the looks, but honestly, 90% of the time I make custom grill cloths out of breathable fabric so all our amps match.  Not certain having not seen one in person, but there seems to be enough room and the cap seems recessed enough that I could mount my standard fabric-stretched-over a wood frame method of making a grill cloth (I used to have an amp with switchable grill cloths) in there, and then you don't see the hubcap at all. 

Actually, it would be really great if Visual Sound could add some sort of mounting mechanism to make it easy to mount that kind of wood frame. They might even be able to sell some different extra grills with some fancy colours etc. to put on top of that hubcap. With some clever attaching mechanism, they could even be made so easy to change, that the palyer could select those to suit the mood he is in. It might be bit different for guitar amps, but that kind of stuff sells quite well for iPods and other stuff like that.

Touring bands will still use marshall stacks because they're reliable and road worthy, get the tone, repaired in every city..

...And Marshalls usually fit their mental image of what looks cool on stage.

[MartyMart]

I remember that when Peavey released their drums with a special "floating rims" system, that sounded great
but looked like "cotton reels" - that's all that "muso's" remembered about them .... oh and the snare
that looked like a "Big Mac" !!

People in general dont go for stuff that looks "different" .... I'm NOT one of them BTW

Best of luck with them

MM.

[tungngruv]

Hey RG, I just watched the video. The amps look great. The insides look great also. I really dig the idea of a killer clean amp combined with an OD pedal that can give up to 4 channels. I think that is a great idea, not to mention the DIY biasing when changing tubes. I hope you do well with this.  Also, it's cool seeing an actual person instead of the letters "R.G."

[The Tone God]

First off it's great to see these finally amps come out. Congrats R.G. and Visual Sound!

The speaker grill doesn't really bug me that much but I do have a habit of suspending my beliefs if there is chance at improved tone. I presume the grill is removable. If so then if someone does not think it is doing anything for them they can take it off. Maybe a suggestion though would be to put grill cloth (that is maybe removable for the option of either setups ?) on to cover the diffuser. It might help calm the musicians down who are whining about the grill. If need be you could offset the baffle to accommodate the grill cloth frame. I personal dislike having my speaker directly exposed to the performance environment so it bothers me a bit at that level. I'm sure R.G. will kicking to correct or explain the reasoning if need be.

Andrew

[Dai H.]

maybe if they were painted in a way where they look less obviously like hubcaps stuck to the front of the amp. Paint a big V over the front or something.

[Cliff Schecht]

I'm doubting R.G. and Mr. Weil are going to make the cover removable (actually, it already looks removable by the screws surrounding it), it seems they put quite a bit of research into just that little tidbit and I'm betting the grilles aren't very cheap to produce.

[Barcode80]

besides that, i think adding grill cloth might take away from some of the high frequency-preserving aspects of the grill.