What's your favorite medium for pedals? Anyone else prefer perf/vero over PCB?

[MikeH]

I started out on vero, so it was very useful in that regaurd, but once I went on the etching pcbs, I noticed that they required about 10 times less debugging.  With vero there's so many mistakes you can make; not breaking a trace, breaking the wrong trace, soldering a component to the wrong trace, etc.  Pcb tends to be a little bit more "idiot proof", as long as you have a good layout.

[David]

This is a very simple answer, vero and perf .

Sorry, Zave, PCB gets my vote every time.

PCB means etching means nasty chemicals and fumes at home, and I have a 4 yr old daughter. Buying already etched PCB's would be an option, but hey, DIY is DIY . Wouldn't be the same if I don't have to waste my time debugging, it's more rewarding when i make it work.

Nasty chemicals?  Well, maybe with ferric and persulphate.  Me, I use muriatic acid and peroxide.  The former is used in pools.  As for the latter, ever hear of "peroxide blondes"?  For the small boards I've been doing, I only use about two fluid ounces of each.  Besides, the reaction seems to proceed just as quickly even if the chemicals are cold.  I have a daughter also.  I etch and/or solder in short bursts -- always when she's not around.

However, I respect your viewpoint and your opinions.

[Meanderthal]

A 60 watt Iron for component use seems like total overkill !!
I'm not surprized that you "burn & Lift" traces, this would be the same
for vero OR PCB

Could be... As I said I'm usually pretty fast with it. I only ever had a problem like that with vero though. I was under the impression that quick in, quick out was the way to go... but, frankly, I had to wrap the handle with duct tape because it gets too hot to hold otherwise, to the point where the handle partially melted. Cheap piece of junk really. But, I have never burnt a chip or transistor(or anything else besides vero strips) with it either(when I don't socket).
I like the idea of swatting a fly with a sledgehammer!

By the way, I just got a 30 watt with a VERY thin tip. That might work out better for me, especially for modding SMD pedals like those Danos! Well, maybe I'll be needing a microscope too...

[Barcode80]

martymart: wouldn't a higher wattage iron heat quicker allowing the solder to melt faster and therefore complete the joint before the heat has time to conduct to the component?

[idlechatterbox]

meanderthal, aren't you concerned that your over-the-top soldering iron will contribute to Global Warming??? 

[MikeH]

martymart: wouldn't a higher wattage iron heat quicker allowing the solder to melt faster and therefore complete the joint before the heat has time to conduct to the component?

This is true, but an iron that's too hot can cause traces to separate from the pcb

[Torchy]

An iron that is too hot will affect the rosin core in thin solder, basically burning it off before the solder has a chance to flow. Irons above 50W are meant for soldering jobs where you use separate flux & solder. An iron that is too hot will also badly affect any impurities on the copper surface preventing solder flow.

In 30 years Ive never used an iron bigger than 20W for pcb/perf/vero.

[Barcode80]

sweet, just curious. i use a 30w.

[Meanderthal]

 Thanks Torchy, that makes sense...

[Meanderthal]

meanderthal, aren't you concerned that your over-the-top soldering iron will contribute to Global Warming???

Heh- good one. I'm not afraid of global warming, since the alarmists in the scientific community are few. I DO fear my electric bills though... now THERE's something to worry about!

[MartyMart]

martymart: wouldn't a higher wattage iron heat quicker allowing the solder to melt faster and therefore complete the joint before the heat has time to conduct to the component?

Torchy's right, I do have a nice weller 18watt, fine for components but not quite enough for jacks.
I dont use it and find a 25watt used quickly, works fine and wont overheat unless held on waaay too long !!
Clean and tinned tip/clean component lead and copper pad all helps .....

MM.

[petemoore]

  Don't tell anyone else...lol
  I use flame to heat up that 15w iron prior to raising the the larger masses to a solder melting point...I count to 12 w/tip of flame only [the carbon is lowest and temp is highest where the combustion proccess is most complete, at the flame tip, not the middle]...and that works, I keep the flame heat justa away from the tip contact area to reduce carboning it up.
  Sometimes I just set it across the elec. stove burner, and turn that on for about 30-45 seconds...heat's er right up!
  Course you could damage the iron this way...that's half the fun of it...doesn't seem to mind a bit of help now and then.

[Meanderthal]

 Jeeze- that sounds like my grandfather, who used to heat his... ummmm.... 'soldering iron'  on (or actually 'in') a coal stove... worked though...

[rockgardenlove]

Now that I've gotten myself a nice laser printer I'm liking PCB more and more.

[smallbearelec]

Aron has stock of the FR-4 stripboard that I had made. Pls do give it a try.

Regards
SD

[R.G.]

I stayed out of this one to see if it developed into anything other than a "No, I like xxxxx better." thread.

I'm disappointed. It reaffirms my notion that any thread which is titled "What's your favorite.....?", "What's the best....?", "Who's the....?" is going to degenerate quickly into a bunch of opinions held just because they're held.

There are some technical reasons for when you would do perfboard over vero or vero over PCB, or hanging garden or dots, or nails in a board or whatever. But none of those seem to be coming out.

I think that opinion request threads are not very useful in this forum, and ought to at best be put in the lounge.

[Meanderthal]

 I have to disagree... This thread helped me figure out what I did wrong, and especially why it happened. Might save someone else a lot of potential hassle in the future. I'd say that's pretty positive...

And the technical reasons for using different mediums have been touched, if only lightly. People are explaining WHY they prefer this or that.

And it has been a very civil discussion so far.

[squidsquad]

I've no experience, time, knowledge, work area, chemicals, patience...
But I've found by laying out my circuit on perf...exactly like the schem...saves me headaches!
I always know which is input & output...9v is on top....grounds on bottom.
I don't get lost...even when feelin *very stupid*.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

It's difficult to put oneself in the shoes of another. And almost impossible top put onself in the MIND of another.
But..... I think the different attitudes people have to different building techniques, depends not only on experience, but also on various innate abilities. And that's why there will never be any agreement on the "best" method of construction.
But for any circuit, and a given individual, there will be a "most appropriate" construction form.
Everyone should try everything once.
And remember, most people here are doing this for fun (at least, I hope so!).
Personally, I'm a vero guy, unless I'm making stuff to sell, when it's PCB.
Did I have trouble with vero shorts & bridges when I started? Yes. Has practice made perfect? Not yet, but getting closer!

[markm]

Now that I've gotten myself a nice laser printer I'm liking PCB more and more.

Just out of curiousity, what changed your opinion again?