What's your favorite medium for pedals? Anyone else prefer perf/vero over PCB?

[A.S.P.]

we seem to have used the same: always oxidized, nothing sticking to it!

(probably too little oxygen in the copper?)

[Meanderthal]

 It's possible... I'm reluctant to say specifically where I got it though, because I don't wanna step on anyone's toes, and I'm not reading a bunch of complaints(other than you and me), also I'm not 100% sure the vero I got was crap- it could easily be me. For what it's worth, the copper strips were nice and bright...

[Doug_H]

Perf. Yes.

[A.S.P.]

does WireWrap count in this thread?

[markm]

  I'm surprised so many have problems with making PCB.
I haven't had any issues with making them at all.
Throw the masked PCB into some FeChl and come back about a 1/2 hour later and there it is.
Drill it and it's good to go.

[$uperpuma]

I like to do PCB's to... I usually etch a lot of boards at once so its not too big of a deal ..

[darron]

well... here's my method... http://members.optushome.com.au/bluespherecreations/forum/soldering

it always works. you don't use flux or paste or anything like that. in case you are not doing it, it also mentions how to control the flow of solder and where it ends up going.

[Meanderthal]

 Yep, that's the way to do it... until it don't stick. That's when the flux comes in handy. I learned to solder about 30 years ago.

[darron]

Yep, that's the way to do it... until it don't stick. That's when the flux comes in handy. I learned to solder about 30 years ago.

then i'm a noob compared to you! i've passed that file on to people before and they say "oohhhh.. i wish somebody told me that" still. tried a resin cored solder? maybe you have some prank solder repellant copper.

[Meanderthal]

 Yep, Kester 60/40, rosin core, extra thin... the good stuff!

I haven't been building pedals for 30 years btw... still a noob at that! I'm just an old fart is all.

Yeah, it DID act like it was repelling the solder- it just rolled around all over the traces without planting... weird! Put me off vero for sure! I could give it another chance, but why bother? It's more expensive than the cheapo no-copper perf I prefer, and if I have to I can always follow a vero layout on perf, as well as a pcb layout. Guess I'm set in my ways!

[Barcode80]

i like vero, as i've found it to be just as reliable as pcbs. i have completed a decent number of builds for a newb, and have never had the solder sticking problem on anything, whether it be perf, pcb, or vero. that's with no flux or tinning either!

if you plan on making more than one of a pedal, you can't beat pcb though. also, +1 about complicated builds. i'd rather layout a complicated pedal first, print it, and not have to ben 8 million leads back and forth like with perf. and vero just can't logically support some pedals. i was SHOCKED at the vero for the thunderchief...

[Meanderthal]

 I agree about the complicated ones. It'll drive ya nuts trying to perf the  EH microsynth for instance! Once ya get to that kind of complexity you'd save time by making a pcb.
I STILL don't have a laserjet though... so the last 'complicated' one I did was the Brassmaster, bought the pcb from GGG(and the Jawari and Dod 440 to make shipping worthwhile). Woulda been a hassle to perf.
I REALLY oughta get a laserjet one 'o these days...

[oldrocker]

I enjoy working with perf board.  I have never used vero yet but I might try it one of these days.  Markm has some great perf layouts in the Layouts Gallery.  I wish I would've had those before I built so many pedal without layouts.   
I have built some medium hard circuits on perf like the Zombie Chorus  - Ultra Flanger - Rebote 2.5 (used a layout) and the Phase 45.  They came out great though and I learned a lot about each circuit during the debug process.  It's all a matter of opinion. 
I haven't etched a PCB yet although I have bought all the supplies to do it.  I don't have access to a laser printer and I would have a heck of a time drilling all those holes.  How do you get the holes in the right place without getting them out of line?  A drill press?
My last build was PCB although thanks to $uperpuma who made it for me all I had to do was solder in the components.  It is the FSH-1 and even though I have confidence that I could've perfed it, I decided to buy the PCB from $uperpuma instead and make it easy on me.  I'm sure one of these days I'll etch a PCB but until then I'll just keep perfing.

[Meanderthal]

How do you get the holes in the right place without getting them out of line?  A drill press?

Yep. Those bits are WAY too skinny for hand held drilling, unless your hands are more steady than a surgeon you'll break em for sure.

You CAN mask a pcb with a sharpie instead of a transfer. I've done that, it works but it's not very pretty. Gotta be good at drawing  though, or you'll have the traces a bit off so the ic's don't line up well. Also, I personally wouldn't do it that way with a complex one- too many drawing errors possible... Which means that I don't do it anymore, because I like to perf the simple ones. I just wanted to try a few to see how it works. Works fine.

[Barcode80]

i disagree. i drill all my boards by hand with a power drill, and i've only ever broken one bit and that was because i dropped the drill bit-first on the ground

[idlechatterbox]

 I don't know who "Andrew Carrell" is, but I owe him (and other others who put up vero layouts, e.g., MarkM, Dragonfly, AMZ, etc.) a bunch of pizza slices for doing those Vero drawings in the gallery. Thank you 

I guess guys with more skill, patience, and profanity, can do the Perf board or go the make-your-own PCB route. Not me though. Too dumb, too old, too lazy, and too much other #*@& to get done

[Barcode80]

Andrew Carrell = Dragonfly

[mdh]

How do you get the holes in the right place without getting them out of line?  A drill press?

I use a Dremel tool with the smallest collet (1/32") in the Dremel drill press attachment. It's not perfect, and sometimes a bit will get pulled to the side a little and break. Still, it's surprisingly easy. If your pcb transfer has holes at the centers of the pads (most do), then the bit will pretty much center itself if you're in the ballpark, with the caveat that too much lateral motion can break the bit. Sometimes drilling a complex or dense board seems like it will be a serious PITA, but it almost always goes faster than I anticipate.

That said, you are clearly in possession of some mad perfing skills, so I can totally see dispensing with the hassle of transfers, chemicals, etc.

[MartyMart]

Meanderthal :
A 60 watt Iron for component use seems like total overkill !!
I'm not surprized that you "burn & Lift" traces, this would be the same
for vero OR PCB 
Get yourself a little 25 watt iron, I've been using a cheap 10 dollar one for
three years - have just bought a second and have had three new tips.

With vero, the only problems I have is after perhaps three or four "solder/desolder"
attempts on the same area, it may then lift.
Some of the PCB's I've used have NOT taken solder well, but again that's just oxidation
and I should have polished them up some more - same is true of vero, clean and shining
it will work a treat and last forever

MM.

[Xavier]

This is a very simple answer, vero and perf .

Why? PCB means etching means nasty chemicals and fumes at home, and I have a 4 yr old daughter. Buying already etched PCB's would be an option, but hey, DIY is DIY . Wouldn't be the same if I don't have to waste my time debugging, it's more rewarding when i make it work.