Finally gonna make a PCB

[erick4x4]

Well I fell stupid that I have been building pedals for a few years and never made a PCB. In the past I have always just perf'd it, or bought one of the PCB's from people like tonepad and GGG. Since their quality was so good, and cost only a little more than me doing it myself I never bothered (and still won't for anything they sell).

But I really want to make a Umble, the new Thor, and Dr. Boogey, and can't find anyone to sell me the board and I don't want to perf it so . . .

here goes, anyone got any great tips? I am going to use press and peel, ferric chloride as an etchant, and single sided board from smallbear.

Really the drilling seems worse than everything else, seems like it would take forever and need to be so exact, especially without a drill press, but then . . .

Such is the price of tone!

Anyway, just posting so I could get some moral support.

[MKB]

Making boards is one of those things where you get better the more you do it.  Make sure the copper on the board is as clean as possible, as well as degreased with a solvent, before you put on the resist for the traces.  Scrub the board very well with steel wool then degrease it; boards are usually shipped with some sort of coating on the copper to keep it from corroding.  That coating works very well as etch resist, so it needs to be removed.  Also make sure your etchant is clean and new, and keep it warm and agitated while the board is etching.  Finally, make sure your pads to be drilled have small holes where the drill will go, this makes it much easier to drill the pads properly.  Good luck!!

[markm]

I etch PCB's at room temp and have no problems.
Warming the etchant will help but not significantly IMO.

[Mark Hammer]

Most folks will not have an available means for heating the etchant bath.  However, most folks WILL have a hairdryer around the house.  If you float the board, face down, in the etchant, and heat the component side of the floating board with a hair dryer, it will both warm up the etchant in direct contact with the board and cause just enough gentle agitation of the etchant bath to do the job nicely.

Just watch you don't splash the stuff...especially on clothing.  Etchant stains whatever it comes into contact with FOR LIFE and also passes from piece of clothing to piece of clothing in a washing machine like some sort of virus.  So, when I say *gentle* agitation, I mean gentle agitation.

[Seljer]

I've only got a really cheap $20 drill stand type thing it it works fine for drilling the holes, not entirely rock solid but I couldn't even image attempting to drill a PCB by hand.
I like drilling, I prefer it to the *wait wait wait* process of waiting for it to actually etch away the copper.
If the pads don't have the holes allready there (or in my case, I have to draw over them with a sharpie because the traces didn't fully transfer) you can use a sharp object to mark them and make the process of getting the drill bit in the right position a lot easier

as for keeping it warm I just have the bucket with the etchant in a larger bucket where i put boiling water to heat it up

[MikeH]

I couldn't even image attempting to drill a PCB by hand.

If you don't have access do a drill press you can drill them by hand.  Here's how I do it.  I put my drill bit into my cordless drill, with only about a half a centemeter of drill bit sticking out of the chuck; this will keep it from breaking.  I hold the drill in one hand and the board by the edges in the other.  And then I just use the board to apply pressure and slowly drill out each hole.  You must be very careful when doing this!  Other wise you might end up with a circuit board in your eye.  I also set the torque setting on my drill very low, so that it will slip before it gets hung up if you catch your necktie in it or something.

[Meanderthal]

I also set the torque setting on my drill very low, so that it will slip before it gets hung up if you catch your necktie in it or something.

Was using a wire wheel to strip a botched paint job from an enclosure. Had the always on button on. Somehow the wire wheel got caught in my t-shirt, and the drill just kept doing its thing, beat the hell out of me, and almost disemboweled me, all before I had time to think. I had to pull the plug to get it to stop. Not fun at all, but woulda made a great camcorder moment.

[axeman010]

Hi

With regard to warming the etchant solution I use an old plastic Chinese take away box with a lid as a bath - then just put the lid on and shove it in the microwave for about 30 Seconds - if it cools below 50C then repeat the procress.

DO NOT DO THIS WITH THE BOARD STILL IN THE SOLUTION - unless you want to send your microwave in to orbit !


Agitating the solution with a plastic stirrer definitely speeds up the process !

Regards

Axeman.

[Pushtone]

I CAN'T BELIEVE NO ONE HAS MENTIONED THE PLASTIC ZIP-LOCK BAGGIE METHOD for etching.
Zero chance of spilling etchant and its so easy to warm the etchant inside the baggie by just running hot water over it.

Like Paul M says in this thread
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=27682.0
I will also be doing (trying) this way.




You might want to print two (or more) of each layout. If you mess one up during ironing you can clean it off with nail polish remover and go straight to the second one without back tracking. I recommend using the medium setting on the iron (Polyester setting on mine). If the iron gets too hot the toner melts and smears.

[John Lyons]

Gotta love these Etching threads that just spin up.

I drilled two fairly big boards without a drill press and that was enough for me. It's very possible to do it this way but I drill press is WAAAAAY easier and more accurate! You can get a small drill press for $50 at harbor freight.

Yikes, I still think a microwave is a bad way to heat etchant. Just get a bowl of hat water and a plastic pan for you etchant, then float the plastic container in the hot water double boiler style. Or use the baggie trick and rest the baggie in the hot water (making sure the seal doesn't submerge or leak. )

When I go to get my transfers ready I print 3 or more (depending on size) of the same layout across the page. Then usually 3 or 4 different circuits on the page. That way it saves paper and is much more economical. Also when someone asks me for this or that PCB I have a good chance of having the toner transfer at hand and will not have to print another.

John

[Pushtone]

Spinning it up some more... 

I prefer to print several layouts and iron them all at once.

Then I use the "score and snap" method to separate them.
I think this pic show a 6"x9" copper clad.

[John Lyons]

Yes, that's the real economy way to do it. Saves a lot of time. Just a matter of having it all ready to do at the same time. Usually I only need one thing and just tack things on because I can and it's easier to do more at once and hopefully use them down the road.

You have gotten a lot of use out of those photos Pushtone! I've seen them at least 5 times on varios different threads. Great looking boards!

John

[MKB]

Most folks will not have an available means for heating the etchant bath.  However, most folks WILL have a hairdryer around the house.  If you float the board, face down, in the etchant, and heat the component side of the floating board with a hair dryer, it will both warm up the etchant in direct contact with the board and cause just enough gentle agitation of the etchant bath to do the job nicely.

Dang, I thought I made up the upside down board/hair dryer method!!  Must have read about it in one of Mr. Hammer's past posts years ago...  This is exactly the way I etch boards.  Floating the board on the etchant also helps as it causes the etched copper to fall down away from the board rather than staying on top of it.  The only issue with that method is that it can be hard to see how the etching is going, but if you use a non-opaque board like standard green FR4, you can see the progress through the board; the etched area will appear dark as the etchant eats through the copper.  You can flip the board up with a toothpick to see under it if you need to.

I tried the "etchant in a baggie" method many years ago, but the sharp edges of the board punctured the baggie and the etchant started eating away at the aluminum pot.  Etchant likes eating copper, but it LOVES aluminum....

[Pushtone]

I tried the "etchant in a baggie" method many years ago, but the sharp edges of the board punctured the baggie and the etchant started eating away at the aluminum pot.  Etchant likes eating copper, but it LOVES aluminum....

Heavy duty freezer zip lock bag or double sandwich bag it.

[pyrop]

I CAN'T BELIEVE NO ONE HAS MENTIONED THE PLASTIC ZIP-LOCK BAGGIE METHOD for etching.
Zero chance of spilling etchant and its so easy to warm the etchant inside the baggie by just running hot water over it.

Like Paul M says in this thread
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=27682.0
I will also be doing (trying) this way.

+1 for the Zip-lock bag method.

The safest & fastest form of etching boards I've tried.
You use less etchant & it seams to last longer too.
I just put some hot water in a plastic ice cream container & aggitate the bag in it, done in no time.
I won't do it any other way now.

pyrop

[Minion]

I use a Dremel for drilling my PCB Holes, and for heating the etchant I put the PCB in a Hard Plastic Container and Pour a Bit of Etchant over it and then Put it inside the Toaster oven on the Lowest setting....I have never had a problem doing this and I have etched probably 100 boards so far....

but since I switched to useing Muriotic Acid/Hydrogen peroxide etchant i don"t need to heat it up as it works so fast anyways.....


Cheers

[John Lyons]

+1 for the Muratic Acid and Hydrogen peroxide. (3 parts H2o2, on part Hcl ) Lowes or  home Depot etc. has it..$5 per gallon. Watch those fumes and wear gloves.
Super cheap and no need to heat. Hey! that's my new motto...

[Barcode80]

does it ever come premixed?

[Meanderthal]

 I'm not sure but it almost sounds like an old formula for rocket fuel...

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

does it ever come premixed?

I doubt premixed HCl + H2O2 would be all that stable, over the long term.

EDITED to say, you just never know what is going to happen in home chemistry.. just found this:
"........Acetone peroxide can also occur accidentally, when suitable chemicals are mixed together. For example, when methyl ethyl ketone peroxide is mixed with acetone when making fiberglass, and left to stand for some time, or when a mixture of peroxide and hydrochloric acid from printed circuit board etching (the FeCl3 method is less smelly, more accurate, but slower) is mixed with waste acetone from cleaning the finished board and allowed to stand. While amounts obtained this way are typically much smaller than from intentional production, they are also less pure and prepared without cooling, and hence very unstable.
It is also a hazardous by-product of isosafrole oxidation in acetone, a step in illicit synthesis of MDMA........."

It's a small world!