Selling Your Pedals

[modsquad]

Okay so I am at the point where I have some ideas of my own, etc.  I was wondering for those who sell their pedals through local dealers how they approached them what terms they had with them, etc.   Don't worry I wouldn't sell someone else's ideas without asking, licensing, etc.  Just wanted to get a feel for what kind of response, approach, etc. I am looking at.

Stan

[Pushtone]

How many do you think you can produce in one production run?

How much time between production runs.

Will you do custom work when the guitar player who has tried your pedals calls and asks "can I get one that sounds like "X"?

How will you advertise? Local guitar shows, Craigslist, backpage magazine ads, word of mouth?

How will you handle warranty claims, like on the footswitch?

How much of a return are you looking for - for the time you will spend on it?

Will you do all the work yourself or will you outsource part of the process?

How much of an investment are you willing to make on parts, PCBs, labor, equipment, lawyers, accountants?
Whatever that number is... triple it.

Are you willing to report your earnings to the tax man?



Answer these questions and you will define you business model more.
It's a balance that has to work for you and the customer.

There is always consignment.

Good luck

[John Lyons]

Try searching for the subject as well. There are a few long posts on this.

If you have something all ready to go just bring it buy you local shop and see what happens...

John

[rockgardenlove]

I sell some just for fun to cover the costs of my other pedals.  I make some profit and then use the profit to make a new pedal to sell, and spend the rest on parts for myself.  Good way to pay for your stompbox habit. 

[modsquad]

If lawyers are involved isn't it quadruple it?   

You know the question I am struggling with is demand.  Right now I would probably outsource the PCB process just because its easier to do it.  I have run my own business twice and know the ins and outs of marketing etc.  I just wonder if its worth making 20 pedals and trying to sell them, or making a couple and getting a feel for demand.

Stan

[GibsonGM]

I'm curious about how people feel about selling on Ebay...I've seen a lot of posts where they really gut someone for doing it.   I'd like to put together a Big Muff, maybe and MXR Dist+ or 2, and try selling them...for, as rockgardenlove says, to pay for making other things    Not for crazy profit, but to make $50 and recoup cost of parts.  This doesn't seem like scalping to me, or raiding someone's intellectual property.  Where I live, in rural Maine, there isn't a lot of work, and I could use the $50 this time of year!     Forget creating a business around this, but maybe doing a few on the side could be nice.

I'd never dream of using someone else's layouts, such as BSIABII (which I've seen sold on Ebay, remember that thread??)...I always do my own or else just PTP on perf. 

But what about something like Bazz Fuss?  I believe that's Christian's design? Well, look at a Big Muff clipping section...basically the same thing!  And go back to some vintage fuzz ckts, you can see where the Big Muff came from, and so on.  Tons of our projects are children of other ideas.  Only so many ways to make a phaser or transistor booster.  So, how is credit to be given??  Diode clipping is diode clipping, whether using BJTs or opamps....

Any thoughts?

[jonathan perez]

i sell my stuff on ebay, locally, and through word of mouth.

but i DONT sell through dealers. they, often, raise prices and cut a chunk for themselves.

but...yeah...

[modsquad]

That's a good question about dealers.  I would be curious to know experiences of people who dealt with dealers.

[jonathan perez]

LOL!!!

OT, but im loving the chuck norris quote. 

[boogietube]

I've consigned some pedals locally to a few dealers. They tack on 20-30% depending on the dealer. You have to be careful with this and check the retail price they are selling it for. Warranty has been the only reason that I consign. They seem to want some sort of agreement with regards to that.  They have to deal with warranties in store if they're offered. I just include my e-mail address on the instruction card and tell them to e-mail me if there's a problem. Another thing to consider is what kind of shelf space you'll be given. One retailer stuck my pedals in a low cabinet near floor level and didn't even demo them for three weeks. I switched to another dealer and they sold in 2 days. The first dealer was not as enthusiasic as the second one. My demo was the same for both stores. The dealer ended up purchacing one for himself and consigning the other two. As I said, they sold fast.  Modded wah's and mods in general are generally word of mouth or advertising on a local musician's board. Modded wah's do not sell unless cosmetically altered.
That's my take.
Sean

[jonathan perez]

Modded wah's do not sell unless cosmetically altered.

its true, once i figure out how to paint correctly...ill be a millonare 

come to think of it, im gonna make a couple "%^&*ed" wahs...you know..stuck wahs...

[Mark Hammer]

I'm curious about how people feel about selling on Ebay...I've seen a lot of posts where they really gut someone for doing it.   

Depends how one uses e-bay.  You can use e-bay the same way you'd use a cork bulletin board at the laundromat or coffee lounge at work, or you can use e-bay the way some folks use a full page ad in Guitar Player.  Modest, low-key, small volume sales via e-bay (instead of a local pawnshop or a garage sale) are more like the former and are not frowned upon by anyone here that I can remember.  On the other hand, active use of e-bay as a marketing vehicle to develop a business based on the hard work and I.P. of others does seem to evoke negative sentiments, especially if no credit is given and the ad copy is chock full of bragging and hyperbole.

Of course, where the dividing line is between the one and the other is something that we don't appear to have arrived at any consensus about.  Is sale of 10 identical pedals based on a Tonepad layout more like a "hobby" or a "business"?

[RDV]

I never sell them, I just gather them around me, like fambily. 

RDV

[GibsonGM]

I hear ya, Mark...I'm certainly not interested in trying to get rich with this hobby or start a business, or rip off those who are, LOLOL!  But maybe to 1) make a little side cash (very little) once in a while from a hobby that I enjoy, and 2) provide a few players with a unique pedal they can't really get at the local store, which has had time spent to be tweaked to deliver some good tone.  I don't believe getting a little compensation for the knowledge it takes to assemble something, or to modify and existing circuit for improvements, is unethical.  Not everyone even understands how to read a schem, or get the parts, let alone build something all the way out to the finish on the box.  Maybe the "line" is in how honest one is when selling a pedal...."home made, based on the Arbiter fuzz" is more honest than "my super, awesome crunch-fuzz with 100% titanium caps, carnuba-waxed gold-plated PCB that took over 10 years to design, uses transistors that Hendrix hand selected...".  Maybe I'll give 1 or 2 a go, just wanted to check in about how people feel about this sort of thing - I don't want to step on anyone's hard work!   

[rockgardenlove]

I might add that so far I'm working on 3 pedals, and have 2 guys on a waiting list.
People do like a nice hand tweaked and wired pedals, without the markup that comes from a dealer.
And plus, when I sell my pedals for 70-110 bucks, I do make a pretty good profit.  People especially like the two pedals in one box thing.  I basically have a treble germanium boost (Rangemaster), full boost (JFET gainstage), and a germanium full booster, then a silicon fuzz which is your standard bipolar setup with diodes (like the Bazz Fuss/BMP you mentioned) and a Fuzz Face.  I then let people pick any two and I'll house them in one box for $110.  They sell like crazy!

Just giving some ideas.   

[Melanhead]

I sell some just for fun to cover the costs of my other pedals.  I make some profit and then use the profit to make a new pedal to sell, and spend the rest on parts for myself.  Good way to pay for your stompbox habit. 

This is exactly what I did ... have tons of parts, but unfortunately don't feel like or have the time to make anything at the moment

I also learned quickly that making the same pedals over and over got boring .... very quickly ...

My local shop said they'd do a consignment deal for me ... wasn't hard to do seeing as I know the guitar department manager and modded most of his pedals

Good luck with it ...

[idlechatterbox]

modsquad & GibsonGM:
You're not claiming to have invented a pedal or even having designed one, from what I gather. You're claiming to have tweaked a design or built a popular DIY kit. From the sounds of things, you're not anticipating a large-scale venture, and you plan on being upfront about the pedal's features and the extent of your own involvement. I say it seems fine.

As for what people (including me) on this website think of the selling of pedals, there's no clear conclusion to draw from the various threads that have addressed eBay, ethics, making money off pedals, intellectual property, etc. They're interesting in their own way, and some people raised some good points. But when all the shouting dies down, there are complex themes involved that won't be settled in a forum like this, if they can be settled at all. And if I remember right, the gripes mainly concerned exagerated or misleading claims, and failing to give credit where it's due. Ok, someone might contact you and ask that you stop. At that point, you could always move onto another design. There's plenty.

In short, if you ask me, you should:
1. put 'em up for sale
2. post a thread here so we can maybe buy some

Good luck!

[ulysses]

i would be interested in any further responses people have from dealing directly with music shops/distributors.

as already stated by others in this thread and on many other threads - i agree that you shouldnt bullshit your customer. some big companies seem to think its ok, and many diyers take that lead from them and then get shot down in forums like this one when they post about it.

theres good marketing and then theres just plain bullshit. and unfortunatly the line is very blurry for some and very tempting to cross for others.

cheers
ulysses

[modsquad]

Well said, I am looking at combining some effects in one pedal, tweaking some schematics maybe adding a buffer, etc. here and there to improve them.  Then putting a decent looking paint job/decal on top.  My take on the whole ethical things is:

1.  If your not claiming to have invented it yourself when others put in the work you're okay.
2.  Not Making outlandish claims.
3.  Not ripping someone else's work by producing 5000 of them.

You're probably okay.  I am looking at trying to make some money on the side because I will do the work myself for now.  That is unless I can get my ADD teenagers to successfully solder and paint.  Thanks for the input from all, good ideas.  I need to work on some marketing bull...descriptions.  My ideas involve doing some combos like Phaser/Univibe, Boost/OD, EQ/OD, etc.   I feel like others here that there are a ton of OD,Fuzz, etc based on a handfull of circuits.  Tweaking them and adding some extra features is the way to differentiate them.  I also think adding some custom paint jobs, cartoons, etc. makes them kinda cool.

We'll see what happens.

[rockgardenlove]

ADD teenager (15) right here!   

1.  If your not claiming to have invented it yourself when others put in the work you're okay.
2.  Not Making outlandish claims.
3.  Not ripping someone else's work by producing 5000 of them.

I think you've got it down.