So stoked on most recent Photo paper etch

[tjcombs]

I'd love to know what happened. 
Traces were great, paper came off super nicely, board was clean, did everything the same, sooooo strange................

[John Lyons]

What was your etchant?
Maybe the laser/photocopy was a but thin and the etchant got through? Teeny pin holes in the transfer will do this sometimes.

In the other etchant thread here there is a link to a Salwater etching precedure that looks really cool . No chemicals other than salt!

John

[Nasse]

There was a thread some time ago, someone reported some manufacturers have changed the toner powder, less maintenance for the printer but pcb making is not possible because such toner contains grease or something-

Perhaps this is not the problem but said it anyway

[tjcombs]

I was using Ferric Chloride. Same stuff I always use.

I might give that salt water business a try.

[tjcombs]

Frick!
I just tried another etch of the same board, but using a hand drawn sharpie. This as well didn't work. I cleaned the board using the same dishsoap/scrubbie combo I always use, then used the same acetone I always use, then drew on the layout. Making sure to draw over  every trace at least 2 times so it's nice and thick. Dropped in in the same etching solution/setup I always use.
Still this one didn't work.
My traces are purple/blue copper colored on this second board. What's going on? Any thoughts?
I'm quite frustrated.

[markm]

What's going on? Any thoughts?
I'm quite frustrated.

My thought is PNP Blue. 

[Mark Hammer]

Just how long did you leave it in for, and how warm was the etchant?

The board looks as if the traces were eaten away from the sides, something that generally happens with overexposure to the etchant.

[John Lyons]

Some people have luck with sharpie and soem do not. I use it to fill in small misses and chips in the toner transfer because it's easy to draw fine traces but sometimes it etches through. Depends on how long you etch and if you brush the board while etching etc etc.
I need to get a fine paint pen!

John

[tjcombs]

I'm thinking my problem was the heat of my etchant and water bath. It was only in the etchant for about 5 minutes, maybe less.
It was quite near boiling, and I'm fairly confident that the etchant was too "active/hot" and ate through my toner/pen. I'm going to try again tonight with PnP (just came in the post today). If that doesn't work, I've got a transparency made now too.
I'll try with just warm tap water and see how that goes.
Thanks for the tips and help everyone! 

[markm]

Although many will disagree with me on this, I will say that I do not heat the etchant at all.
Room temp seems to work for me and it takes about 1/2 an hour....give or take.
FC is aggressive enough at room temp to do the job unless of course you're impatient!
Hey, best of luck! 

[$uperpuma]

Although many will disagree with me on this, I will say that I do not heat the etchant at all.
Room temp seems to work for me and it takes about 1/2 an hour....give or take.
FC is aggressive enough at room temp to do the job unless of course you're impatient!
Hey, best of luck! 

most of the time I don't heat my echant either... with my new batch of 1 ounce copperclad I've started heating. But with 1/2 ounce copper I don't really heat it.

[John Lyons]

Holy smokes! "near boiling"!!!

I usually fill a small pan with hot water out of the tap and then float my plastic dish with etchant and board in that.
Granted it's 20 degrees outside, maybe 60 inside. ( so heating the etchant slightly gets it up to "room temp")
Try without heating the etchant of just slightly heating it.
I'm going salt water etch as soon as I hoop up the probes... gotta love "no chemicals!"

John

[zjokka]

If you heated to boiling point, the proccess went too fast, hence the chemical reaction too heavy.
This doesn't matter if you don't leave it in too long.

Like Mark said, better to go slower and to be more patient, so you have more control over the reaction.
Important: you don't mention this, but it might be that the toner doesn't adhere because you didn't scrub it with steel wool?

If the traces are good and solid after the transfer, the problem is you over etched it seems,

keep us posted
zj

[tjcombs]

If you heated to boiling point, the proccess went too fast, hence the chemical reaction too heavy.
This doesn't matter if you don't leave it in too long.

Like Mark said, better to go slower and to be more patient, so you have more control over the reaction.
Important: you don't mention this, but it might be that the toner doesn't adhere because you didn't scrub it with steel wool?

If the traces are good and solid after the transfer, the problem is you over etched it seems,

keep us posted
zj

I followed tonepads instructions as per cleaning the board, (same cleaner and all)  so I am quite certain that the temp was the problem.

I ironed again tonight with PnP and the traces were just as good as last time. . I used slightly warm etchant this time. The etchant took about 15 minutes, but the results were quite good. Continuity across the whole board. I'm just about done with the wiring and all, except for 1 pot that has yet to arrive in the mail. (dual stacked pots are quite hard to come by sometimes!)
I'll post some pics when it's done.
Thanks again for all your help everyone, you've been great!

[choklitlove]

Important: you don't mention this, but it might be that the toner doesn't adhere because you didn't scrub it with steel wool?

nice suggestion.  steel wool, then soap/water.  also, i use steel wool afterwards to get the toner off of the copper.  most use acetone or nail polish remover, but that never gets it all off for me.
it also works really well for any metal that might be difficult to solder to.  jack lugs, backs of pots, etc.

[zjokka]

(dual stacked pots are quite hard to come by sometimes!)

if you have old hifi equipment lying around (tuner or amplifier,) you'll surely find some dual stack pots in the tone controls for panning, treble/bass etc.

Where did you find the WY Harmonics Booster? Isn't that what is also sold as basic Fender Rhodes preamp?

zj

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

"near boiling" might have softened/dissolved the resist.

[John Lyons]

Ha! good point Paul, I didn't think of that. Too much heat all around!
John

[tjcombs]

(dual stacked pots are quite hard to come by sometimes!)

if you have old hifi equipment lying around (tuner or amplifier,) you'll surely find some dual stack pots in the tone controls for panning, treble/bass etc.

Where did you find the WY Harmonics Booster? Isn't that what is also sold as basic Fender Rhodes preamp?

zj

How did you know what this was? Heh Yes you are correct choklitlove
These things are not sold anymore, they were made and sold in the 70's I think.
I aquired one off ebay and there was something wrong with it. I replaced individually EVERY component on the board. Everything was new except the actual board. There was a terrible hum and buzz that I couldn't source. I  liked the tone of it so much though that I though I would start completely from scratch. I haven't gotten it up and running yet, but soon enough!

[GibsonGM]

Maybe you could save that 1st board by silvering the traces w/solder?  Hate to see an otherwise good board die...