bass overdrive

[jlullo]

Last year, one of the bands that my band toured with had a bass player who was using a Fulltone Fulldrive to overdrive his bass.  He was using the guitar version and not the bass version.  I've read on here enough times to know that a Fulldrive is pretty much a fairly similar circuit to a TS-808.  I was wondering (without having tried it yet) how a TS-808 guitar build would work for a bass?  Our bass player is in love with this dude's sound, and i'm trying to figure out what i could build for him.  If I did build him an 808 are there any particular mods i should do knowing that this is for bass and not for guitar?

[Tomass_17]

perhaps just haiving a .100uf cap at at the input and ouput should do, allowing more bass to come through. That would be your best bet, trust me im a bassist 

[jlullo]

tomass,
so you're saying replace the .027uf at the input and the 10uf at the output with a .1uf cap?

[moosapotamus]

I would not decrease the 10uF output cap. But, increasing the input cap is a good idea. Add a wet/dry blend control, too.

~ Charlie

[jlullo]

moosapotamus,
how would i add one of those in?  i'm still a rookie

[Meanderthal]

 I use a ts9 with(you guessed it) .1uf input cap, stock otherwise. I think the output cap is plenty big enough. Don't lower it.  It's(the ts9) only 2 resistors difference from the 808.  So yes, it'll work, even stock, but that input cap helps. Surprisingly, it dosen't kill lows as much as you would think(on bass), but it sure boosts mids... which is what sounds so cool about it...

Forget the clean blend, you won't be using it at full distortion! That (clean blend)would defeat the growl it adds to bass anyway. It's not like it don't sound like a bass or something... You'll see what I mean...
That's the standard advice for a lot of effects not siutable for bass, but this one IS compatible. Well, go ahead and add one, it just won't get used, no harm done.

And, yes, I play bass.

[jlullo]

meanderthal,
awesome!  thanks for the advice.  i don't think he'd really use a blend knob anyways (even though i appreciate the suggestion).  He's pretty psyched on the idea of my building him one as our friend's bass tone is pretty amazing.  do you think i should build it to TS-9 specs or TS-808?

[Meanderthal]

 Ehh... whichever one's closest to the Fulldrive... I don't think it'll make much difference. I might mod mine to 808 specs someday(just for the hell of it), but I think the difference is mostly hype... Probably sound the same because from what I understand the main difference is the 808 had more intense distortion, and the setting ya use is the setting ya use, so I'd just have the drive knob set lower if I do that...

Point is, it'll get him into the ballpark either way. If he wants an EXACT copy of that guy's sound, he'll need all his gear and his technique anyway.

[Mike Burgundy]

Good info here:
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/TStech/tsxfram.htm

[Laus]

as I said in the PM, the blend is cool but not necessary. I made it to Bassdrive specs but made some filters switchable to get more sparkle. Made the cap on the overdrive part of the Opamp(4.7K > cap > Vref) switchable between guitar and bassvalue. The bigger bassvalue adds some more mud to the overdrive. The guitar setting with some clean blended in is quite cool.

[Bernardduur]

Do the flat mids mod!

Quite nice on bass!

And the clean blend is just one great addon for EVERY bass player!

[Meanderthal]

 Yeah, the flat mids mod might be nice(never heard it myself), but I'd recommend making it switchable... it's only a cap... I have a feeling it's that midrange growl that he's after though, especially since the guy was using the guitar version stock.

One other thing I'm not actually familiar with is the Fulldrive. I'm just going on the rumors(based on fact no doubt) that it's a Booteek tubescreamer. I really have no idea what was and was not tweaked in the circuit, but if it's voiced any different than the average TS it might sound significantly different than a ts9. For all I know, it might have the flat mids mod, for instance. So, I'm not 100% sure exactly what sound you're after, but I know what's been working for me. And, for me, it's the mid hump in the TS that's what makes it a big deal- step on that pedal and you instantly cut through the mix in a big way without getting much louder, and every nuance of technique becomes obvious. If it weren't for the mid hump, I could just get some mild clipping from an electra distortion or something, and be satisfied with that.

Like I said, it won't hurt to add a clean blend, but I doubt it'll get used for this one. I've found however that Bernardduur knows what he's talking about with bass effects, so if he's using it it must be... useful. I never considered that for mine, but I'm wierd that way- I avoid clean blending like the plague, I prefer to use effects that do something useful(and retain bottom end) as is and don't need any diluting. That's a view contrary to that of most bass players, so I'm not really the best person to give clean blend advice, I'm admittedly biased. I'm also in the minority with this view, but that's ok. The herd instinct isn't very strong in me, I don't mind being the odd guy out. But I don't sound like yer average bass player either. I'm too persnikkety about tone to accept... average. I prefer concepts like 'unique' or 'outstanding' when it comes to bass tone.(but always in appropriate context with our interpretation of the song being played) My clean tone is only one of many sounds available to me.

And, no offence intended, but I have absolutely no desire to sound just like someone else... that's an unachievable goal anyway. So I forge my own path.

Sorry to get all philosophic... no one asked for that. I just felt a need to explain where the advice was coming from, because it sounds odd, especially when ya get outvoted by the majority every time. I have my way, others have theirs. It's not about what's the right way or wrong way, rather the only 'correct' way is do whatever it is that works for you.

  Maybe it's not a good thing to care about these things so much... I'm at risk of becoming just another tedious opinionated tone nazi...

[jlullo]

haha that makes total sense man!  thank you for all of the advice and suggestions everyone.  I am definitely going to build this for him in some variation.  i definitely might make the flat mids mod, but switchable, as i agree with meanderthal in that i think the attraction to using the guitar pedal would be the "growly" mids.  thanks for all of your help and suggestions (as usual).  you all know that i love you.

[southtown]

you could integrate a rog splitter blender or make one for him him in a seperate box.

[Mark Hammer]

At its heart, the TS-9 is a bandpass filter that just happens to have some clipping inserting somewhere in the middle.  As RG's article nicely conveys, the quality of the clipping produced is a function of the lower (at input) and upper (post-clip) corner frequencies.

The usual strategy for adapting a bandpass-type autowah for bass is to shift the passband down an octave or two by increasing the value of the filter caps.  I would think the same strategy might apply here too.  So, with that inmind, consider increasing the .047uf cap from the inverting input of the op-amp to Vref to .1uf, and increasing the .22uf cap to ground after the op-amp to .39uf or .47uf.  Those values may not be optimal, but they will move you in the desired direction.

The .22uf cap for the tone control may also warrant increasing in value so that it complements the range of the bass.

[Gila_Crisis]

i think you'll like this one:

http://wlst.jp/effector/bassdrive/Bass-Drive-Rev.C.pdf

it's the fulltone bassdrive schem 

[jlullo]

mark,
awesome.  thank you.  that is definitely something to play with.

gila,
thank you so much for the link!  the reason that i don't want to stray too far from the TS, though is because our bass player used to have the Bassdrive, and wasn't too into it.  I think he liked the "snarl"  of this dudes Fulldrive because it didn't cut all of the stuff that the Bassdrive does.  Right now he uses the MXR Bass D.I.+ and recently discovered that he likes the Sans Amp better.  The two of us were talking, and were thinking that i might just build him this TS-ish pedal to try out before he goes through the motions of selling his MXR di and then shelling out for the sans amp. 

Come to think of it, maybe i should make this into a D.I.?  would this be overly complicated? (i'm sure the answer is..."more then you would want to deal with")

[moosapotamus]

Well, here's a tube screamer for bass from the same site that Gila linked to...

http://wlst.jp/effector/tubey/tubey.html

http://wlst.jp/effector/tubey/Tubey.pdf

~ Charlie

[Kornell]

Very interesting...Thanks!