Check out my pad, man - fading in effects

[Mark Hammer]

No, I don't have anything startling.  This is a query to provoke creative thought.

One of the neat things that keyboards can do is to provide "pads" that are used for sort of atmospheric effects.  These are gradual changes or morphs over sustained chords.  They don't NEED to have a slow attack volume envelope, but they often do.  Sometimes it is a smooth changeover from one voice to another, sometimes just a filter or other alteration applied gradually.

Discussion about the Slow Gear, the ramp-up feature on the VB-2, the delayed tremolo for the EA Tremolo over at Geofex, and those delicious modulation mutations that Ton stuck up on youtube, got me to thinking.

What sorts of effects would you like to have fade in over time, like a pad?  For instance, would a chorus or phaser modded to permit fading in of wet signal (and by extension the intensity of the chorus effect) be attractive to people?  Would you rather have an octave-up fuzz fade that octave-up in over time?  Is panning depth that increases with note decay useful?  I mean, why should keyboard players have all the texture fun?  Why do you have to go MIDI just to take advantage of them?

So, this thread is to kickstart thinking about what constitutes a "pad" in guitar-ese, what the logistics are behind using and producing them, the varieties of pad-like use of effects, and what sorts of effects lend themselves best to doing so.

Wind it up, baby!

[rockgardenlove]

Good thinking!  I've been doing this for a while with my wah-turned-panner.  Automating it is some good thinking.  There's one problem I've encountered, though.  The sustain has to be pretty long for it to actually sound very good.  The note/chord tends to fade out too fast.
I've been toying with the idea of hooking up a phase shift to a Dr. Q or so for a bit, but I got distracted. 

[Seljer]

how about something with just the envelope detector and and an effect loop, so you can plug in any pedal you want and it fades it in? I mentioned this in a thread just a while back

[Mark Hammer]

That's good for some things, where relative level is all you need to adjust.  There are other bases to cover, though.

[Meanderthal]

Hmmm... how bout an envelope controlled distortion(naah, scratch that, they do that anyway)

How bout a voltage controlled distortion, where the asdr controls intensity, but not volume.  Could also tie cv into an lfo(tremolo, chorus, flange, phaser, vibrato, filter), maybe controlling the speed parameter would be particularly nuts...

How bout a reverb that gets more intense the longer ya stay on that note?

Or a gated delay that only actually works when you play, no echoes when ya stop. Kinda gated reverb thingy.

Maybe something like a slow gear with the ability to sense when you are playing chords and shut itself off... until you play single notes.

An envelope pedal with cv out that triggers an asdr (momentary switch) to control a filter or other external signal processor.

Just a few ideas... that begin to describe a guitar synth...

[slacker]

off the top of my head a delay that increased the feedback or level over time or increased them as the input decayed would be cool. Would be nice to leave the last note of a solo ringing and have it fade out into a mess of self oscillating repeats. The same trick also works quite nicely with reverbs.

[puretube]

Wound it up: no MIDI required...

(note: the delay itself creates short sequences of rhythmic repeated octave up and octave down sequences,
modulated by 2 (subtle) vibratos at same frequency, but varying phase.).

guitar into pedal into clean amp into cam-microphone, at bedroom volume.

[Meanderthal]

 Well, this one just shot right down there... But I find the concept of using guitar to fill a hole in a song like a synth pad interesting...

I would say that that's what Edge(U2) does a lot of the time, and that his characteristic delay/chorus/compressed/whatever effects and technique could be described as a pad... even though it dosen't fade in...

[Mark Hammer]

I'd agree wholeheartedly.

The Gretsch Controfuzz represents an intriguing sort of pad insomuch as the fuzz can be set to seem to fade in over time.

Of course, one of the things that makes keyboard pads more "interesting" than guitar-based attempts is that you can create asynchrony in the audible changes over time on a note-wise basis.  All you have to do is press the keys for a chord down in some manner other than all at once and you get a sonic complexity.  Unless you go with a hex pickup and maybe MIDI, you can't really do that on guitar.  Still, even though all processing of a "normal" guitar has to be somewhat monolithic, as Dave "Edge" Evans nicely illustrates, you CAN still create interesting background textures.

[Meanderthal]

 Some distortions have an interesting 'bloom' all by themselves. I don't think it would be too hard to find ways to artificially control this with cv. Granted, it would be monophonic in nature, but it might be useful. A lot of filter envelopes on a keyboard are monophonic, even though the seperate keys are doing other things with aftertouch and the timing of the notes and rhythmic components of seperate samples/patches are doing things, the filter is doing one thing to all being triggered by the first not being played. That kinda thing could be done with cv... but not just a vcf...
Would need an envelope generator circuit and some means of triggering it with the first note played on a guitar. Then I guess see where ya can go with the cv...
Not exactly a guitar synth, but something along those lines. Maybe even been done before, like in the microsynth, but as I said, why limit it to filters. Using led/ldr you could replace a lot of pots in different circuits for instance...

[Mark Hammer]

Doesn't all have to be via envelopes.  Don't know about you, but I still have 2 feet.

Just as a side note, there's plenty of cheap controllers for racing games out there where you get two foot-controlled pots in spring-loaded pedals for well under $25.  While it may not be good practice to use one foot for the brakes and gas, if those two pedals are converted o parametric voltage control of something, it isn't such a big crime to plunk your foot over both and fade in (or out) two things at once.

Before anyone gets any brilliant ideas to use them for wah wahs, they aren't sturdy enough for all that back and forth action.  A gradual sweep for pad purposes?  Yes.  Tales of Brave Ulysses.  No.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

A keyboard player has just asked me to find a way for her to fade between reverb paramaters.
I can't see that being easy!
Though, the Alesis Midervb4 has a number of algorithms where a midi controller value can seamlessly change one of four paramaters, eg delay time. So I might try that, telling her to use one of those "foot" things Mark has.

[Jay Doyle]

Doesn't all have to be via envelopes.  Don't know about you, but I still have 2 feet.

Just as a side note, there's plenty of cheap controllers for racing games out there where you get two foot-controlled pots in spring-loaded pedals for well under $25.  While it may not be good practice to use one foot for the brakes and gas, if those two pedals are converted o parametric voltage control of something, it isn't such a big crime to plunk your foot over both and fade in (or out) two things at once.

Before anyone gets any brilliant ideas to use them for wah wahs, they aren't sturdy enough for all that back and forth action.  A gradual sweep for pad purposes?  Yes.  Tales of Brave Ulysses.  No.

No need to use both feet: just put the back to back and then connect the two 'tops' (where you put your foot and make it move) together and then as you sweep one up, the other comes along for the ride and sweeps down. Maybe difficult with jack position, but SRV did this with a couple of wahs, or I read something like that...

[rockgardenlove]

I've got two feet, but I gotta stand on at least one.   

[sfr]

My Trem Face clone has this interesting characteristic in that if you hit it with a hot enough signal (say, my LPB cranked all the way up) it basically doesn't trem at all.  Throw a volume pedal inbetween the boost and the trem, and as you pull back the volume, you get more and more trem - it's a small range, but eventually you get back the depth setting you expected out of the trem.  (Too far and you're quieter than when you started)

There's this magic setting though, (which can be a little tough to grab - I really should measure what that setting is and have a footswitch to knock it in) where you get just the slightest imperceptible warble when you bang out a chord, but as the chord begins to decay and lose volume, the trem starts to really kick in, with more and more depth as the volume fades out.  It can fade into this beautiful trem-my feedback if you do it right. 

I'm not sure if it's my amp squashing all those really hot signals into one constantly "loud" level, or the Trem Face not dealing well with the hot signal.  Either way, it's very organic and cool sounding.  Not quite what you had in mind, Mark, but it's the first thing I started thinking of when I started reading your post.  I just started working on a Tremulus Lune (both for the added versatility and the idea of keeping all the effects in my multi-unit negative ground) and I haven't had time to see how it behaves in this situation, but I'd hate to lose this functionality; it'd be a cool thing to learn how to implement in other effects as well.

My favorite "pad" type sound is still a little aggresive - Ampeg Scrambler with both knobs full tilt, run into a volume pedal.  Bash out some power chords, and fade them in and out with the volume, and run them into a medium-fast choppy trem.  Makes me think of wierd sci-fi soundtracks, like some of the more experimental parts of the first Planet Of The Apes soundtrack.  (Or at least, the way I remember the music in that movie.)  A little delay makes it sound great too. 

I have to say, almost all the "pad" type sounds I go for involve using the volume pedal or the knob on my guitar.  Often with unconventional picking methods (scratching, tapping, picking behind the bridge, etc.)  A little delay and some foot-controlled swells, and way too many other effects on, and you can coax some weird things out of the amp.  I can't imagine I'd want to give up that control to circuitry.  But being able to blend between conventional and different sounds could put a whole new spin on it.

Sorry, I ramble, but unlike some of y'all, mine don't go anywhere.

[Processaurus]

Laptop musicians and DJs seem much more into animating effects than guitarists in general, it helps having a hand free, but we don't have excuse because we do have a foot free still.  The fun of plugins is automating effects morphing changes to go with music, you can spend/waste so much time nailing down your tweak.  

I recently modded a local kid who was into DJ stuff's DD-6 to have simultanious expression control over the mix and repeats, it was easy because all the existing pots are just voltage dividers that get read by the microprocessor.   With guitar it was great, it lent itself to some less obvious "pad" like things, like just turn the it up on the decay of some notes, and you have an extended slightly chorusy sustain (because of the cleanness of the digital delay and that it doesn't self-oscillate, it'll just hold whats in there).  It sounded huge and not unnatural.

I'm imagining the hardware for something to fade between effects would be a reverse panner, two inputs and one output, and 2 voltage controlled attenuators (like the Motorola dual IC in the boss NS-2) run in antiparallel.  Though maybe a VCA with a built in logarithmic conversion on the CV would be desired so there wasn't a volume drop in the middle of the fade.  Then you could hook up anything to control it expression pedal, LFO, envelope, triggered envelope, the Anderton thing that detects how fast you're playing.  Something that detected where on the neck you were playing would be cool, so you could do stuff like have an octave fuzz fade in when you've been playing way up on the tiny strings for a little bit, that would fade out when you played rythm.

[rockgardenlove]

http://unmaintained.com/forums/ShowThread.aspx?PostID=43#43
I'm sure this has already made it's rounds, but it's pretty cool.

[sfr]

I've been fooling around with a the Tremulus Lune build all day today - I just can't stop adding knobs and switches to that darn thing!

Having one LFO controlling the speed that first LFO modulates the signal is very cool - somewhat akin to rocking a Univibe foot pedal forward as you play.  If you play in time with the modulating LFO, so each chord you let ring out starts at the begining of the increase in speed, (or at the begining of the decrease in speed) it sounds very cool.  Seems like that could be a very cool thing to have fade in on modulation effects - having the speed start slow and speed up at each strum.