PCB layout advice

Papa_lazerous · February 08, 2007, 03:53:58 PM

Hi all I am going to move away from using vero and etching my own circuits. I know how to do it, but I still have a question.

How many of you make the PCB with holes and tracks to include the jacks or stomp on the board or both?

I am thinking this will make my life allot easier for mounting the pcb so I am hoping that if anyone does thos or has seen it done to let me know any ideas you have or things I should consider first.

Also any links to layouts that have the 3pdt stomp included so I can see how they have incorporated it

Cheers John

Papa_lazerous · February 08, 2007, 10:39:01 PM

34 reads and nobody is interested

Well there's me being guilty of a bump

bound to happen sooner or later

markm · February 08, 2007, 10:41:10 PM

Wish I could help you but, I'm old-school.....nothing on the board except what really "belongs" there!

Papa_lazerous · February 08, 2007, 10:46:09 PM

Ahhhhh

I'm just thinking along the lines of the crybaby layout with the jacks supporting the pcb. then I though about the 3pdt maybe its not a good idea but I am going to try it anyway

markm · February 08, 2007, 10:49:33 PM

One of the Board Members here has done some boards this way and I can't for the lfe of me remember who the heck it is!

I've been digging through my links too as I thought I saved a site that has some info about it.....
Ahhh Hell, if nobody else responds, just bump it one more time.
Here, I'll give it a bump......

The Tone God · February 08, 2007, 11:15:51 PM

When you start to attach case mounted parts to the PCB you start to joining the PCB layout process with the physical box design process. You have to become very diligent with your planning. If you are off a millimetre or two then all hell can break loose. One of the problems is you have to start thinking about the third dimenssion. The height of a footswitch might not be the same as where you want your jacks. Pots might bump into parts. It just increases the amount of work you have to do.

For doing one offs I would not recommend it. You either spend alot of time in the design phase or in the assemble phase fixing the problems you missed in the design phase.

Andrew

Papa_lazerous · February 09, 2007, 12:17:52 AM

Valid point there, I think I will try and make a pcb with the stomp connected to see how it works out. I always put the 3pdt in the same place when using hammond boxes so that part of a layout could almost work as a template for others.

Not too worried about the third dimension. I spend my life looking at 3rd angle projection drawings visualising things in 3 dimensions lol

I'll simply sit down with a piece of paper and a pen a pair or verniers and work out where everything needs to go. I know when produced that everything will fit. The thing I was worrying about was the traces on the pcb efficient ways of running to the stomp and jacks that kind of thing.

The Tone God · February 09, 2007, 12:37:06 AM

You can can usually get away with one mounted part. Its when you start doing multiple parts that you start having troubles. I think the switch is good thing to PCB mount. It is in the centre usually, can serve as a mounting point for the board, and saves alot of wiring.

I prefer to CAD my boxes and parts completely then reference my position sensitive PCB components from that.

Andrew

$uperpuma · February 09, 2007, 12:49:18 AM

soggybag was the one who put together the "everything board" for the B boxes

RaceDriver205 · February 09, 2007, 02:50:44 AM

Quote34 reads and nobody is interested

Whatever, my RF Switcher in DSP got more than twice as much, and no one was interested!

Paul Perry (Frostwave) · February 09, 2007, 07:41:30 AM

I put all my pots on one board, and run a ribbon to the other board with the jacks on.
But...... the one thing I would never mount on a board, is the stomp switch.
Because, someone will just push it right thru the damn board.

Auke Haarsma · February 09, 2007, 08:11:23 AM

Quote from: Paul Perry (Frostwave) on February 09, 2007, 07:41:30 AM
I put all my pots on one board, and run a ribbon to the other board with the jacks on.

What's the advantage of putting the pots on a board? Is it easier to solder? Or do you also put some other components at the baby-board?

axeman010 · February 09, 2007, 08:49:21 AM

Hello Daaaave.

I agree - avoid putting stomp switches on the board. I have had to repair a commercial pedal for a friend
that had that exact problem - the board was cracked from over zealous stomping !!!

Axeman.

dano12 · February 09, 2007, 09:00:23 AM

The latest PCB designs for my rat-based pedal have PCB mounted switches. I did this because it takes way to long to build these things otherwise. Here's a couple of pics:

It takes a lot of design work to get this right, not only on the PCB but how it is going to live within the enclosure. I've burned through a lot of hours, parts and PCBs getting it just right

A big advantage is that my two boards use the switches to hold themselves in the enclosure.

Finally, I think the in, out and power jacks should never be PCB mounted.

$uperpuma · February 09, 2007, 10:58:49 AM

THAT looks killer... and I agree that you REALLY have to have things together to get all those holes and such to match up, especially on multiple axes...

gaussmarkov · February 09, 2007, 12:00:16 PM

i don't understand why mounting the stompswitch on the board leads to stress on the board. is there a lot of vibration that get translated through the casing? i also like the idea of mounting the pcb this way. i wonder what you could do to make the design more robust, short of adding additional support with hot glue or similar. i'd rather keep disassembly easy. perhaps support for the board somewhere else in the enclosure, like some padding between the board and the screw-on lid?

gm

dano12 · February 09, 2007, 12:07:06 PM

Quote from: gaussmarkov on February 09, 2007, 12:00:16 PM
i don't understand why mounting the stompswitch on the board leads to stress on the board. is there a lot of vibration that get translated through the casing? i also like the idea of mounting the pcb this way. i wonder what you could do to make the design more robust, short of adding additional support with hot glue or similar. i'd rather keep disassembly easy. perhaps support for the board somewhere else in the enclosure, like some padding between the board and the screw-on lid?

gm

I think the key is determining how many points of pressure will be applied to the PCB. On my main board, the board itself is anchored solely with the 3PDT switch. That's 9 contact points, fully soldered to the board. I think it would have to be a pretty catastrophic physical event to break that. On my secondary board, the PCB is anchored to the enclosure through the 5 toggle switches. Again, I think this will be pretty solid. I draw the line at jacks--those always need to be on wires.

The Tone God · February 09, 2007, 02:43:33 PM

If proper precautions are taken the footswitch can be mounted to the board. Problems come about when details, like shock mounting the switch, are not taken hence failures.

Andrew

markm · February 09, 2007, 04:47:23 PM

Quote from: $uperpuma on February 09, 2007, 10:58:49 AM
THAT looks killer... and I agree that you REALLY have to have things together to get all those holes and such to match up, especially on multiple axes...

Agreed.
Where would you then mount your Jacks and what size enclosure was this board in? 1590B perhaps?

Paul Perry (Frostwave) · February 09, 2007, 05:03:54 PM

Thanks for the pics, Dano!
As for stress...... there's no problem putting the stomp on a PCB, if it's the STOMP that is bolted to the case, as here.
And my jacks are bolted to the case, not the PCB (with 6 pots on one board and 5 or 6 jacks on the other, the board is well enough secured, believe me!)
When did I decide to put the pots on the board? When my assembly assistant announced that she'd soldered the last wire to a pot that she was EVER going to do..... she was right.

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PCB layout advice