Triangle Big Muff Weak Tranny Advice

[Paul Corusoe]

The ac127's came with the kit from byoc. I tried the bias adjustment and it still sputtered so took it out and it sounds good. I can't wait to build something else. Maybe a tone bender..
Man you really cleaned up the board on my big muff, I compared the two pictures and the difference is night and day. Much gratitude!!

[analogmike]

Thanks for helping out Max!

He's a great customer of ours, we have done a lot of stuff for him but my best tech left for a few months so I was afraid of taking this job on right now as we are really busy.

Glad his transistors are ok! Those 3uF caps sure are odd. He sent it to the right guy for muffs, that's for sure.

have fun!!

[Skreddy]

Thanks for helping out Max!

He's a great customer of ours, we have done a lot of stuff for him but my best tech left for a few months so I was afraid of taking this job on right now as we are really busy.

Glad his transistors are ok! Those 3uF caps sure are odd. He sent it to the right guy for muffs, that's for sure.

have fun!!

I'm starting to suspect that EH used up all the best 2N5133's back in the day...  These were extraordinary.

[analogmike]

You got that right!!!

Yesterday I got 100 of them, exactly the same as EH used, F mark and all, from 1979. 

Gain is PITIFULLY LOW 

And I bet they might be noisy to add insult to injury

[Meanderthal]

 

I'm starting to suspect that EH used up all the best 2N5133's back in the day...  These were extraordinary.

Are you serious? I'm curious about this... I have a bunch of 2N5133, they're comparable to 2N5088 gain wise, but they sound a bit grittier. Not particularly noisy.  Got'em from Electronics Goldmine, not Smallbear, if that means anything(I doubt it).

So, here's what I'm wondering- is there some characteristic other than what I mentioned that would be something special? What would be an extraordinary 2N5133? Forgive my ignorance, but this is the 1st time I've heard this...

Funny thing is, many moons ago I had a triangle muff that sounded just awful. Because of this, I always scratch my head when I hear all about how good they sound... but I think mine may have been a rare exception(nobody else says that).
I also found the 'Ram's Head' version to be about average, nothing special.
But, one thing to keep in mind- at the time I had those 'vintage' pedals, they were just old, not vintage. I got the Triangle for $10.00, and the Ram's Head for $30.00(which I thought was a bit steep at the time). Old EH pedals were pretty much considered junk at the time, obsolete, unreliable, cheap, etc...(but I always loved em for the sounds)
Those 2 are long long gone. I never attached any special value to them.
And then one day in the early 90s I walked into a guitar shop and saw an old BMP (late 70's version) for $130.00. I couldn't believe it!

[Skreddy]

Yes, grittiness is a personality trait they share.  Those Electronic Goldmine units are okay.  Pretty much the lower-gain ones will be noisy, of the units they have in stock, leaving roughly half that are usable, in my limited experience with them.  I get a lot of Small Bear ones and sort them for gain and then screen for noise and end up with a pretty low yield too, but I like the tone of those a little better.  Just a matter of taste, I'm sure.

The good 2N5133's are gritty, high-ish gain, and quiet.  The GREAT 2N5133's are smooth and syrupy to boot.  Smooth and gritty may sound like conflicting descriptions, but I'm talking about a thick, "brown" tone, with a softness in the high end, as opposed to the harsh glassiness you'd get out of a 2N5088 or 5089.

Silicon corksniffers, unite!

[Meanderthal]

Smooth and gritty may sound like conflicting descriptions

Not at all... in a BMP...

Ok, I get it now. I was worried that there was some magic component completely unobtainable nowdays... But I guess ya mean there's some bad ones and good ones sorta like Ge.

I'm going to have to sort mine for gain next time I use em. Never occurred to me, I'm used to silicon being relatively consistant...

Thanks!

[Skreddy]

Well, they pretty much ARE unobtainable nowadays.  The units in the original circa 1971 BMP's are just quieter and smoother than anything else I can find.  To make up for it, I do extensive screening and tweek a few caps here and there.

[Meanderthal]

 OIC... Well, I guess I'll just hafta use what I can get... no biggie. They still have a certain something that the usual 5088/5089 can't quite match. To me it's a subtle, but important difference. Actually, I noticed a bigger difference in my Hog's Foot(I know, it shouldn't matter in this one, but it does) and EH Axis fuzz than in the BMP. But, I wasn't sorting them... might make a big difference...

[manson]

The GREAT 2N5133's are smooth and syrupy to boot.  Smooth and gritty may sound like conflicting descriptions, but I'm talking about a thick, "brown" tone, with a softness in the high end, as opposed to the harsh glassiness you'd get out of a 2N5088 or 5089.

Is there any consistent other transistor one could use to get these characteristics? I mean without buying 40 and ending up with 4 good ones?

[Skreddy]

The GREAT 2N5133's are smooth and syrupy to boot.  Smooth and gritty may sound like conflicting descriptions, but I'm talking about a thick, "brown" tone, with a softness in the high end, as opposed to the harsh glassiness you'd get out of a 2N5088 or 5089.

Is there any consistent other transistor one could use to get these characteristics? I mean without buying 40 and ending up with 4 good ones?

Welcome to my world!    Still trying different transistors and clipping-diode arrangements and filtering, etc., etc.  Bottom line is "not that I know of" but there are a lot of other "nice" tones to be had out there, with a little work, experimentation, creativity, etc.  For me, it's worth it to actually buy lots and sort & screen for *that* BMP tone.  And at the same time I've been tweeking other ideas to get nice tones from more-or-less off-the-shelf components.  Not the same, but nice in different ways...