Analog Delay schem...

[jaman]

Hello ! I'm looking for a schematic (and the layout if possible) to build an analog delay...

Any suggestions ?

I have listened to the MAXON AD-900 and I liked it very much !

Is there the schem for this or any close to it ?

thank you.

[Seljer]

http://generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=140&Itemid=156

[jaman]

Thanks !

Has anyone tried this one ? Does it sound like the maxon ad-900 ?

[Mark Hammer]

What do you mean "sound like"?  It is quiet, has appropriate filtering, and can produce a fair bit of delay.

The Maxon uses 8192-stages of delay, while the AD-3208 board layout accommodates up to 6144 stages of delay.  So, a bit less delay time available from the "packed" AD-3208, but not so much that you would notice or miss it.  You certainly wouldn't use it any differently than the AD-900 by virtue of the difference in max delay time.  The Maxon has gone to great lengths to keep noise down and I would estimate that some 10% of the entire production cost of the pedal is the many trimpots it contains (and their adjustment) in service of that goal.

But to answer your question, many many folks here have built the AD-3208 and its digital workalike, the PT-80, and had very good things to say about them.  Keep in mind that you can always mod them to sound the way YOU want.

[jaman]

Thanks a lot  !

I will try it and post my comments 

[boyersdad]

You may also want to look at the PT-80 project on GGG. It is a digital delay, that acts and sounds very very much like a BBD analog. Even the designer of both the circuits recommends building the PT-80 over the larger analog, as he says the difference is extremely subtle! Also the PT-80 is cheaper to build, and smaller.

I will be building on of these in the next few weeks. I'm going to try to get it into a Cry Baby shell, and use the rocker for the delay time

[Mark Hammer]

I don't want to risk generating yet another digital-vs-analog thread hijack, but it is worth noting that digital delay chips are extremely cost-effective.  While there can be audible differences between completely analog delays and analog-digital hybrids, the audibility of those differences depends on how you use them.  Some experts have noted and suggested that as notes trail off, fewer and fewer bits are allocated to encoding them, and quality suffers in the digital domain, where analog delays have exactly as much "resolution" at the start of a note as at the dying moments of it.  This would of course be more true and noticeable when one leaves more space between notes, and uses more regeneration.  If you fill up the empty space with notes, then modest differences in audio quality will essentially be masked.  Of course, if the delay uses higher resolution (e.g., 16-bit or higher) then differences start to disappear no matter what playing style you adopt.

This is all to say that there may be some instances where the PT-80 digital/analog hybrid might be a wee bit less desirable than the all-analog AD-3208, but a great many more instances where any differences will slip right past you unnoticed.  Given the low cost and small footprint of the PT-80 circuit, and the manner in which the compander and filtering achieves much of the character of analog delays, you should feel no misgivings about building one of them instead of an all-analog delay.

[boyersdad]

Sorry, I forgot that A vs D can be a touchy subject!

I just thought it was worth pointing the PT-80 out as an option.  As I haven't built either myself, all I have to go by is the words of the man who designed both of them: Scott Swartz.

The best thing to do would be to listen to sound clips of each, and try to decided from that limited amount of listening which would better suite you.

Good luck!

[Mark Hammer]

NOT a touchy subject for me.  I'm glad you brought up the PT-80.   Sometimes, getting people to accept digital delay is a bit like getting young children to try a new food.  They're afraid they won't like it, and convince themselves they won't like because of that.  Of course, once they try it, they often end up loving it!  Remember, there was a time in everyone's life when they had never ever tried chocolate ice cream before.

The PT-80 is not a "better" delay than the AD3208 or many of the commercial short delays using 8192 stages or less.  It just isn't discernibly "worse" in most instances.  Raising it as a viable option for jaman was the right thing to do.

[Andre]

Mark,

The Maxon uses 8192-stages of delay, while the AD-3208 board layout accommodates up to 6144 stages of delay

Why's that ?   Using 2 MN3205 gives you 8192 stages I think, or am I overlooking something ? 


BTW, I use a PT-80 and I really like it. Sounds very analog to me.

André

[blanik]

same for Rebote 2.5...    (yeah, i'm sold)

[Mark Hammer]

Mark,

The Maxon uses 8192-stages of delay, while the AD-3208 board layout accommodates up to 6144 stages of delay

Why's that ?   Using 2 MN3205 gives you 8192 stages I think, or am I overlooking something ? 
BTW, I use a PT-80 and I really like it. Sounds very analog to me.

André

Various issues of the Maxon appear to exist.  One posted/published image of the components side of the board showed eight 1024-stage BBDs.  The AD-3208 is set to accommodate up to 3 BL3208/MN3208 chips.  I suppose you *could* stick 3205 chips in there if you could find them, but 3205 chips are very hard to find in small quantities.  BL3208, on the other hand, seem to be fairly available at reasonable prices for little guys like us.

[Andre]

The AD-3208 on GGG can only handle 2 BBD's.
Is there another layout available, other than the one by JD Sleep ?

André

[Mark Hammer]

My bad.   The PCB is for only 2 BBDs.  Apologies for the false hopes.

I think there WAS an earlier version that could handle 3, but I may be remembering it wrong.

[oldschoolanalog]

Check out the KIS analog delay in the schematics/layouts area. Tone Czar design. Uses 3X3208. Advertised as 640ms delay.

[oli]

Hi,

I build three Delays by myself: the PT-80, the AD-3208 (with two 3205 ICs) and the Boss DM-2.
I like the Boss and the PT-80. IMO the AD-3208 is too expensive (10$ each 3205 IC) and very complex to build.
I think you can´t get a better delay than the PT-80 compared in price and building time.

Regards,
Oli

[col]

Has anyone tried the analogue delay in "Advanced projects for the Electric Guitar" by J Chatwin? I have got all the parts ready but the stripboard layout I did for it is HUGE! I am just abit worried in case thelayout of parts is critical and it picks too much RF up. It is based on an MN3102/MN3207 circuit.

Col

[PedroTejada]

Hi!
I really like the DM2 an The DM3 but in Brazil they are very expensive. Oli, you have a PCB, Layout for The DM2??? You can send me it?!?
And the final result is close to the original!??!
Thank You, and sorry about the bad English, Pedro Tejada

tejex777@hotmail.com

[jaman]

Hi!
I really like the DM2 an The DM3 but in Brazil they are very expensive. Oli, you have a PCB, Layout for The DM2??? You can send me it?!?
And the final result is close to the original!??!
Thank You, and sorry about the bad English, Pedro Tejada

tejex777@hotmail.com

I would appreciate if you could send it to me also...thanks !
giannis_a@yahoo.co.uk

[oli]

Hi,

sorry guys, I build it on hole grid. Therefor there is no layout.
I don´t know, if it sounds like the original, because I haven´t heard the original, but I build it exactly like it is in the original schematic and I used all the original components, so there is no reason, why it should sound different the the original B oss DM-2.

Regards,
Oli