Housing several Effects in one

[DanielWong]

Does anyone know how to go about htis? should I just connect the output of one circuit directly to the input of the second? What if I wanted it to be true bypass-able so I could go through one of the circuits and bypass the other?

[MikeH]

You don't wire the outputs to the inputs.  You wire the output from each switch to the next.  Ie: for two effects, it goes from the input jack, to the switch.  Then from the output of that switch (which would usually got to the output jack), it goes to the input of the next switch (which would usually come from the input jack), and the out put of that switch goes to the out put jack.  Make sense?

[mydementia]

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/two_in_one_wiring.pdf

[Mark Hammer]

1) Two effects, three effects, eighty-seven effects.  Doesn't matter, you can fit in as many as the chassis allows.  Take a look at any mixing board.  Each channel consists of a booster amp, an EQ section, a panning section, etc.  Don't let the fact that it is called a "mixer" distract you from the fact that the one chassis houses many many separate little modules that are all built onto the same PCB.  Conversely, don't let the fact that you have effect circuits named A, B, and C distract you from the possibility of them simply being sections of one bigger board in one box.

2) You may be able to fit two or 3 effects circuits onto one board and into one box, but they will still need the same power they do when split over individual boxes.  Some effects have low enough current requirements that you can easily power 2 of them, (even complete with status LEDs), but this is more the exception than the rule.  Once two or more effects circuits are involved, it is more common that the pair will use up a battery fairly quickly.  Remember that even though you may have bypassed it so that you don't hear it, the effect circuit is still "on" and using up current.  With that in mind, you may want to plan around using a wallwart adaptor only.

3) A "global bypass" is generally a good idea, so that no matter what you have set the 2 or more effects to, you can completely bypass everything.  Just keep in mind that this represents an extra panel-space requirement so that you have room to step without stepping on other things.  Which brings us to...

4) The more things you stuff in a box, even when the circuit-board fits, the more room you will need for knobs and switches, the more you will need to pay attention to their location and the more attention you will need to pay to wire leads on the inside so that you don't get oscillation (or get lost).  Big knobs may look cool, and bigger diameter pots may be more precise, but sticking two effects in one box will create a need for smaller pots and narrower knobs.

5) Depending on the particular effects involved, it may be appropriate to either a) have an insert loop with two extra jacks, so that you can stick something in between the two effects that works well in that position, b) include some means for flipping the order of the effects (A->B, B->A), c) include some means for "ganging" the two effects in some way (e.g., I included a switch for having a phaser and Univibe driven by the same LFO in one pedal), or d) some combination of any of these.

[DanielWong]

Thanks for the info guys! I still do not regret joining this board!

But also, I obviously can't power both circuits with a single DC adaptor....what can I do? (and I don't want 2 dc jacks on the enclosure lol)

[Mark Hammer]

Thanks for the info guys! I still do not regret joining this board!

But also, I obviously can't power both circuits with a single DC adaptor....what can I do? (and I don't want 2 dc jacks on the enclosure lol)

You're welcome.

Why do you think you can't power both circuits with a single DC adaptor?  Have one DC jack on the chassis, and run power to each effect from the one jack......Not unless one is negative ground and the other positive ground.

[DanielWong]

Yeah it'll work

I like your idea of having an insert loop, could you possibly show me a schematic on how to make one? and the effects I'm using are the Green Ringer and Maestro's Filter and Sample & Hold so there is no need for switching the order of circuits. I was looking at the GGG pdf, and I was thinking that way I'd be able to use both FX at the same time, am I correct?

[Pushtone]

I find it a good idea when dealing with multi-ctk projects
to put in a little perf board as a power and ground distribution.
It also makes a nice place to mount the LEDs and their current limiting resistors.



Directly to the left of the resistors are two rows of flea pins. One row is 9V+, the other is ground.
Four solder point for each. See the LEDs in there as well?

[slacker]

I was looking at the GGG pdf, and I was thinking that way I'd be able to use both FX at the same time, am I correct?

Yes you can use both effects at the same time. The method in the ggg pdf is exactly the same as having 2 separate pedals as far as using them goes, they're just in one box.

[Fuzzy-Train]

Check out my 3 in 1



2 fuz faces, and an octavia. The octavia will soon be moded with a octave on/off switch, and a body mod switch to make it a little less dirty.

I'm planning another 3 in 1 pretty soon... keeping the details secret though.

It's pretty much the same as the GGG layout someone posted earlier, but with 3 pedals. It's a little confusing when I got everything in there, but if you take your time your golden.

[dachshund]

I'm planning to do the same - where do you find extra long enclosures?
I have an area of about 14" wide on my pedalboard, but only about 6" deep; 3" tall. I haven't been able to find anything in those dimensions yet.

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

This thread has answered a question for me that I had been reluctant to ask and hadn't taken the time to search for yet

[Fuzzy-Train]

I used this bx from SmallBear:

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=54

It's 7.5" x 4.3" x 2.4" and they have another one that's 7.38 x 4.7 x 1.3" but I wanted it to be taller so I went with the 2.4" walls.

I'm using the same enclosure for my next 3 in 1 to make everything look nice and clean. Plus it'll make my pedal board look really cool since it'll only be a wah, and 2 of the 3 in 1's.

[sfr]

Check out your local scrap yard - I was able to pick up some aluminum extrusion that worked just right.  It had three sides; I got some scrap aluminum in a rather thick gauge, cut it all up with a hacksaw, and made top plates that bolted down on everything.  (Makes working on effects easier, as I everything is attached to these top plates -  I simply unscrew and flip out the plate I want. 

I used terminal blocks to connect things, so if I ever want to change my distortion out for another one, I simply remove the plate, disconnect some wires and put the new one in.  A little planning and you can set up a common screw pattern so the whole thing works similar to rack mount effects.  I made my standard unit width the size I could comfortably step on one switch at a time without hitting anything else.  (My first one of these I had already drilled and tapped holes for something else, so the holes aren't in the same spot in every plate - my second one is, however.)  I normalized jacks, like a patchbay, so with nothing plugged into them, the effects are hardwired in my standard order, but if I want to change the order or stick another box inbetween two effects, I simply put patch cables in, and it breaks the connection between to effects and sends the signal through the cables.

I have two of these now, one with delay/trem/flanger (the number of knobs and footswitches I used on these neccesitated larger panels), and one with scrambler/eq/boost/dist/octavia/chorus.  Both of them also have A/B boxes in them to allow me a bit of flexibility.

Here's a couple of pictures of the first unit in it's earlier stages; I don't have anything more recent just yet, but when they're both looking all pretty, I'll post some more, I guess.


Eventually I'll mount the two units together in a stairstep fashion for reduced floorspace, and ease when I also have to be in front of a mic stand. 

Each unit has a power/ground distribution board similar to what was described above, but with terminal blocks.  I measured the current draw required, and each was well within the limits of what a single tap on my Gator G-Bus (kind of like a Voodoo labs PS or DC Brick deal) could supply.  The flange/delay/trem one runs off of 18V - the flange and delay already had voltage regulators on board, so I added an additional one for the trem.  (Voltage regulators are your friends - you could run positive and negative ground circuits, bipolar circuits, circuits with a variety of voltage requirements all within the same box through judicious use of these - get a decent 18-24V supply and make some regulator boards that supply whatever voltages you need.)

[Pushtone]

Check out my 3 in 1


2 fuz faces, and an octavia. The octavia will soon be moded with a octave on/off switch, and a body mod switch to make it a little less dirty.

Very nice use of space with the side-wall PCB mounting and stacked jacks.

I love the three-in-one concept. The challenge, I think is combining three circuits that work well together.
Not so much all at the same time but logically, together in one package.
I think you did that well too getting the controls laid out symmetrically over the footswitches.

I like the DD and the 1790NS sized boxes for three-in-ones.
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=52
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=567




Nice modular system sfr with an interesting extrusion.
I like the little bit of built in toe room too.

Are those rectangle LEDs in your build? And in such a nice selection of colors too!
I would loose the screws to make it faster to change modules. Something you can unscrew with your fingers, or velcro.

[ambulancevoice]

I quote Dano from Beavis Audio.com from the Fuzz Lab page

"Switching Ins and Outs
Once I built and tested each module, the next question was how to switch between effects? I could have hardwired them in a specific sequence, but would have been contrary to the overall design goal of flexibility and tweakability. Additionally, I want to retain true-bypass switching in each module. My first thought was to go crazy and design a digital switching circuit based on CMOS chips. After a lot of research and late nights looking at schematics, I realized this was both overly ambitious and could potentially added degradation to the signal paths.

I also looked at designing a large matrix of relays and switches, but this would have introduced cost and complexity issues that just didn't warrant the effort.
As with many things in life, the best solution was the simplest. On the back panel, I would add in and out jacks for each of the effects, and use patch panels to arrange module order. This also yielded the ability to use any effect in the FuzzLab on its own."

[sfr]

Are those rectangle LEDs in your build? And in such a nice selection of colors too!
I would loose the screws to make it faster to change modules. Something you can unscrew with your fingers, or velcro.

Yep, they are.   A little bit of work to get the holes just right, and then JB Welded in from the back.  Unfortunetly, the yellow ones just aren't bright enough for me.  But yeah, they're nice.  Picked 'em up from Futurlec on a whim and just decided to go with them.

I tried thumbscrews, to begin with.  (And since the channel is tapped for 10/32 screws like a rack mount, I had a whole bag of 'em) but eventually came to the realization that I don't need to get in there enough to warrant using them, and I didn't like the way they protruded out, and they stuck out like a sore thumb since they were powder-coated black.  (Like the rest of the thing looks nice enough for that to matter!)  So I went with these lower profile screws.  Since the aluminum is tapped - there's no nut on the other side, you only need to loosen it a tad before you can spin 'em out with your fingers.   A key is fine.  I always have an extra leatherman/multi tool in my guitar case anyway, so I'm set.

I actually tried velcro at one point when I was mocking up, but a few places things just barely clear, and I wanted to protect against accidental shorts.

The next step at some point is to implement electronic switching - ideally so I can switch a mini toggle somewhere and have several pedals, not necessarily in order, turn on and off with one switch.  (i.e.; turn pedals 1, 3 and 4 off with one button, leaving pedal 2 and 5 alone.) 

The more I play with this system, the more I think floor-mounted switching with waist level dials and knobs would have been a better situation.  It may be what I end up going with in the future.   This iteration came from the desire to want to get all my pedals in one unit and get them in there *now*.  I was tired of lugging around a million cables and things, and this made gigging life easier than waiting until I figured out all the pieces.

[Mark Hammer]

Your LED arrangement represents an elegant solution to a problem. 

The modularity of the unit means you don't have to be bothered with all the specific decoration of individual pedals.  There is obviously a reason to want to treat a Hammond box as a palette for art (see the Pictures thread for more lovely examples than you can imagine), but there is no getting around the fact that such decoration and legending takes time, effort, and money....which folks who have spent their stash on components and parts for lots of circuits may not have.  So a plain vanilla face plate with a couple of holes drilled is blissfully utilitarian.

But when you have so many modules whose physical appearance does not quickly differentiate them, how do you know which ones you've left on and which ones are currently off?  The strategy you've responded with - different coloured LEDs - is brilliant.  That lets the user easily and quickly register which module is which, even at a distance and in the dark, by colour and relative location (e.g., the "middle" red).

Smart, smart, smart.

[dachshund]

The more I play with this system, the more I think floor-mounted switching with waist level dials and knobs would have been a better situation.  It may be what I end up going with in the future. 

This is what I want, too, in fact I was just searching for info. on this. Have you thought about how to do this? Of course there are motorized pots, but there must be other solutions. I know it's a lot just to avoid bending over, but then... I hate bending over.

Thanks for posting the picture - that's a great design! I remember this from the Pictures thread, and figured I'd never find it again.

[Mark Hammer]

One of the sweet things about solid-state switching is that the footswitches can be remotely located, such as in a floor-mounted chassis, while the controls and signal path is sitting at waist height, right where the tinkerer wants them.