Fuzz Face into SF Fender (sound clip & schem)

[Sam]

Though I like FF type circuits I often feel they tend to get to buzzy and brittle played through amps like the silver face Fenders. My main amp is a 74 Deluxe Reverb and I spent a couple of days tweaking a BC108 based FF to better suit my amp.

Schematic:


Sound clip:
http://media.putfile.com/FuzzFace
The first part is bypassed. The following are to some extent cleaned up with the guitar volume and with diffenent pickups selections. The guitar is my beloved Tokai Silver Star (though in dire need of adjustemens and a few fixes . Guitar -> FF at breadboard -> MD421 -> Fireface 400 -> iMac running Logic. No other effects.

Comments?

[John Lyons]

Yes, I agree. in general black and silverface fenders are bright amps relativly.
Make sure to turn off the bright switch. I usually play with the tone controls as: bass 7, mid 6, treble 5, Bright off, this is for most distortion and FF type circuits.
So mainly that 220pf is doing the fizz control... Try a .01, .004 or so across the trim pot at Q2. This cuts a good bit of the harsh high end out.
Take a look at Gus's Fuzz face variant in the schematics section above.

The Clip sounds nice!

John

[Sam]

Try a .01, .004 or so across the trim pot at Q2. This cuts a good bit of the harsh high end out.

I'll definitely try that.

The Clip sounds nice!

Thanks! It cleans up really well from the guitar volume with lots of nice upper midrange bite. I like that. But still maxed out it still growls like a fuzz should.

[John Lyons]

Sam

I made the comment before I heard your clip. I thin iy sounds pretty good as you have it.
Take a look at the schem of Gus's and compare the two ways of doing it. I think if you add the mods you made along with the cap across the trimmer it may zap out too much high end. Just experiment...

The clean sound on the clip has a nice compressed single coil sound, works well with that fuzz turned dwon a bit. Cleans up nicely.

Take a look at Joe gagan's stuff in Tungngruv's gallery postings. Most are based on the FF and there are some nice tweaks and nifty adaptations going on there. Sound samples as well but they are a big "hot n heavy"... Should clean up well though.

John

[8mileshigh]

Sam,

Thanks for posting your clip.  The clean part is a bit too compressed for my tastes, I feel as if the tone can't breathe and I guess the transfers into the other clips.  Are you using fresh strings ? I'm also sensing a lack of sustain in the clips but you mentioned that your Tokai is in need of a setup, just like all of my guitars right now.  The basic tone is very nice though and offers a very nice Frusiante vibe. 

My fuzzface only sounds good with the fuzz dimed, so I control drive with the volume pot on my guitar.  As a side note, I put the Tone Tubby alnico and a cermic combo into my cabinet and it's really given my 69 Bandmaster Reverb a brand new lease on life.  Expensive but worth every penny.

Chris

[Sam]

Are you using fresh strings ? I'm also sensing a lack of sustain in the clips but you mentioned that your Tokai is in need of a setup, just like all of my guitars right now. The basic tone is very nice though and offers a very nice Frusiante vibe. 

The strings are really old and worn (actually, one of them was missing during the recording) and the tailpiece is in terrible chape. Although, I chose my strat for the clips as i think it brings the best out of FF, than say my telecasters or my P90 equipped hollowbody guitar.

[Sam]

New soundclip: http://media.putfile.com/FuzzFace-ver0-2 (slightly alterd circuit)

IMHO it's getting better all the time. I decided to make the LP-filter at the output adjustable to a certain degree hoping to filter out highs without affecting the clarity and punch of the higher mids - and usable settings through out the sweep. Looking at the series LP filters found in some designs I decided to try something similar but making one resistor variable.

I liked the slightly mis-biased sound and threw in a Bias pot. When at max resistance (5k) the internal trimpot will be used set Vc to 4.5V. Backing the Bias pot gradually introduces some nice buzzy nasal character to the fuzz.

Since I don't really like the standard gain controll (1k at Q2 emitter) i decided to try out a variable resistor at the input. This works a lot better for my needs and to a higher degree "clears up" without loosing all definition to the sound the way the standard control is prone to. Additionally, backing it off slightly makes the circuit friendlier to fat humbuckers.



I'm still not entirely certain about the "fizz filter" at the end. Soundwise, I'd like to get a steeper slope in the LP - taking out ALLthe fizz while sparing the agressive edge around 1-2kHz when at minimum and gradually letting the treble (or "presence") though. At least, that's what i think I did with this setup. Will a buffer stage prior to or after the filter enhance it's responce?

Since I bulit my prototyping board I've barely touched my soldering iron...

[Barcode80]

is this Ge or Si?

[Sam]

is this Ge or Si?

Silicon, BC108. Did you listen to the clip? If you did, I will definately think of this question as positive feedback!

[Steben]

I don't know why but it feels very Ge. Must be some very very detailed secret? Perfect mix of fuzz + amp clipping maybe?
really really good. What are the Hfe's of the Sillies?
What is the position of the 250k "fuzz" pot in the clip?

About the filter: You should put a buffer there to get really steep stuff. Don't forget the FF has relative high output impedance, more than your 3,3k resistor there, so the first filtering stage is quite subtle. An other option is choosing much bigger resistor values, like around 25k and calculate the cap value. This way, the output impedance's effect is relatively small. The side effect is a even higher output impedance, but with a sturdy "high impedance" guitar amp coming after there is never a problem with that. for more "weak" stuff coming afteryou could consider a buffer AFTER the Hi impedance filtering.

[Sam]

I don't know why but it feels very Ge. Must be some very very detailed secret? Perfect mix of fuzz + amp clipping maybe?
really really good. What are the Hfe's of the Sillies?
What is the position of the 250k "fuzz" pot in the clip?

Very nice to hear! Even if I'm a very determined builder I'm still a newbie and comments like this really boosts my confidence! Thanks, mate. On to electronics... I'm currently at work and all my notes are at home. But IIRC the Hfe's are arround 240 (Q1) and 340 (Q2). The 250k pot is probably at, or near, 0k through out the clip. The circuit cleans up really good from the guitar.

[Sam]

is this Ge or Si?

Sorry, I just realized I forgot to draw the arrows, they should point outwards.

So to clear things up: BC108, Metal can, NPN.

[Barcode80]

i'll try to work up a vero for this...

[Sam]

Cool! I updated the schem:

[Sam]

Version 0.3: R6 increased to 8.2k.

New soundclip: http://media.putfile.com/Sams-Fuzz-Face-v03

- At 2:00 minutes the "Fuzz" pot is turned back and forth.
- At 2:30 the "Treble" pot is turned back and forth.
- At th end "Bias" is set to minimum.
- Trough out the clip I change pickups and use the volume on the guitar, and ocassionally change fuzz and treble settings.

[Sam]

BTW: Many thanks to everyone responding!

I think it might be time to heat up the soldering iron.

[Barcode80]

love that clip, definitely on my list to build... haven't gotten around to doing that layout yet but i'll post when i do!

[Steben]

I don't know why but it feels very Ge. Must be some very very detailed secret? Perfect mix of fuzz + amp clipping maybe?
really really good. What are the Hfe's of the Sillies?
What is the position of the 250k "fuzz" pot in the clip?

Very nice to hear! Even if I'm a very determined builder I'm still a newbie and comments like this really boosts my confidence! Thanks, mate. On to electronics... I'm currently at work and all my notes are at home. But IIRC the Hfe's are arround 240 (Q1) and 340 (Q2). The 250k pot is probably at, or near, 0k through out the clip. The circuit cleans up really good from the guitar.

Thx.

Seems like i see two major "germanizers":
1. 220p feedback cap
2. 51k instead of 100k feedback resistor, giving lower input impedance and gain.

Of course the treble cut circuit adds some blow too to the amp.

[Sam]

Seems like i see two major "germanizers":
1. 220p feedback cap
2. 51k instead of 100k feedback resistor, giving lower input impedance and gain.

Of course the treble cut circuit adds some blow too to the amp.

Yeah. I tried to put my BD-2 after the "Mosig Banan" (the name I've now given the circuit) and liked the way it brought a nice low mid resonance with just a hint of additional breaking up. I might later try to make a simple mid boost and put it prior to the output pot.

[rocket]

I don't know the real twin but the POD2 emulation sounds awful with any fuzz I've ever tried with it.
The deluxe emulation sounds MUCH better with fuzzes.