Wah output buffer

[enigmur]

I just want to make a simple output buffer for my V847 - http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mccoy/bufferlayout.gif

What are a few substitutes for the 2N5457??

How does an output buffer work exactly??

[calculating_infinity]

Heres a great chart provided by Andy Carrell aka Dragonfly

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/The-Mod-Zone-%21/TRANSISTOR_SUBSTITUTION_CHART?full=1

[tcobretti]

I built that buffer (two actually), and there is a vero layout in my gallery.  For some reason it pops when I move the pedal quickly from heel to toe.  This happens with both of them.

So, you might want to try the one at the bottom of the page linked below.  I haven't tried it yet, but it will be the next one I try.

http://www.home-wrecker.com/wahmods.html

[enigmur]

At the moment when I try to use my wah on my Axis Face it has no effect at all really.

If the fuzz is turned up high, having the wah in the back to middle position causes oscillation.

Question is, would an output buffer fix the oscillation? Could it be due to the wah's input being too high for the Fuzz circuit?
Also, an output buffer is transperant isnt it? Because I have finally got my wah sounding how it should

[tcobretti]

At the moment when I try to use my wah on my Axis Face it has no effect at all really.

If the fuzz is turned up high, having the wah in the back to middle position causes oscillation.

Question is, would an output buffer fix the oscillation? Could it be due to the wah's input being too high for the Fuzz circuit?
Also, an output buffer is transperant isnt it? Because I have finally got my wah sounding how it should

Yes.

Probly not.

No.  It'll color the sound a little.  It all comes down to how often you plan to use your wah with fuzz.  I took mine out because of the popping, but I may build another.  I wouldn't say it affects the sound an unacceptable amount.  Also, remember that if Hendrix was able to use his wah and fuzz together, than something in his chain (probly the Octavia) was acting as a buffer. 

[enigmur]

Thanks for the reply tcobretti, you are like my knowledge savior here! 

Good to know it may fix that oscillation. I'll have a tinker with the buffer circuit and see what i can end up with.

I always wondered if Jimi had a buffer in his wah, I hadnt read anywhere about it.

I'll let you know how this circuit turns out and whether I get any popping (i'll try the one you suggested.)

I'll be a happy camper if I can use my wah with my fuzz.

[tcobretti]

Glad I could help, and hope it works for you.

[Fret Wire]

I always wondered if Jimi had a buffer in his wah, I hadnt read anywhere about it.

Roger Mayer claims he used an input buffer on Jimi's wah's in this interview.
http://www.musicgearsource.com/rogermayer.html

[tcobretti]

Wow, I don't have time to read that right now, but I look forward to doing so.  I did read the buffer part, however, and the critical point is that RM installed an input buffer on Hendrix's wah, but what we are talking about is an output buffer so the wah works better with fuzz.  The input buffer is apparently like what dunlop uses to make up for a non-true bypass switching scheme.  So, if you have a true bypass wah, the buffer is unnecessary. 

[enigmur]

That was a really interesting read. I like how he answered his questions, like suggesting people stop obsessing on getting Jimi's tone and work on your own.

It's funny, the writer says at the start of the interview "i'll get my question about Jimi out of the way" then asks like 3-4 more haha.

So how do you think they got the FF to sound so good with wah? Possibly wah after fuzz? It just seems odd because my FF and wah together are as hopeless as Brittany Spears and K-Fed. 

[tcobretti]

There has been speculation here that a non-true bypass Octavia will act as a buffer.  First, remember that the Mayer Octavias that Hendrix used are much like the Tychobrahe, and not much like the actual Roger Mayer Octavia that you can find schems for.  Second, as far I know, no one has tried this idea and it is still speculation. 

It is pretty well established, however, that Hendrix's live rig was guitar-wah-Octavia-FF (or Mayer Axis fuzz if Jimi was playing a Gibson)-univibe-amp, so the Octavia seems to be the key.

You should build a Tychobrahe next and let us know if it works!

[Fret Wire]

Wow, I don't have time to read that right now, but I look forward to doing so.  I did read the buffer part, however, and the critical point is that RM installed an input buffer on Hendrix's wah, but what we are talking about is an output buffer so the wah works better with fuzz.

Many times, Jimi used the fuzz after the wah, which we all know. In the interview, he states he used an input buffer on the wah, and not an output buffer, which you read. If we are to believe Roger, he was able to make fuzz sound fine after the input-only buffered wah, which is what this thread is about.

The input buffer is apparently like what dunlop uses to make up for a non-true bypass switching scheme.  So, if you have a true bypass wah, the buffer is unnecessary. 

No, that's the whole essence of what this is about,  input/out impedance matching

[Fret Wire]

Also, an output buffer is transperant isnt it? Because I have finally got my wah sounding how it should

Not really transparent in the sense of what you might hear. An output buffer would be no different than having a separate buffer pedal after the wah. The high output impedance would keep the signal strong, and restore any high frequency signal loss in the signal up to that point. So, you may find you have to change the sweep cap on your wah to compensate.

[Fret Wire]

One other thing, if your using one of the wah output buffers with a trimpot, try adjusting the trim, that may help. I've used Phil Bryant's  wah buffer without any problems, other than the buffer doesn't allow the fuzz to clean up well with the guitar's volume knob. When you're running the wah before the fuzz, there always seems to be one thing that gets compromised. With me, it was the fuzz' volume clean up when the wah is on.

Maybe someday, Roger will give up the real deal.

[tcobretti]

I tried everything I could think of with Phillip's buffer.  I even built a second one and used it with a different wah.  Both pop when I move the wah fairly quickly while playing at full strumming volume.  It's like Pandora's box; I didn't notice it for a while, but when I did I couldn't stop hearing it.  I'm not saying the design is flawed.  Phillip has a great site that I have read and reread many, many times.  I just couldn't get that buffer to work right.

[Fret Wire]

If the buffer on Phil's site doesn't work for you, the one you linked to on ROG's homewrecker is different enough so that it may do the trick for you.

It is pretty well established, however, that Hendrix's live rig was guitar-wah-Octavia-FF (or Mayer Axis fuzz if Jimi was playing a Gibson)-univibe-amp, so the Octavia seems to be the key.

Jimi placed the Octavia after a fuzz and wah unit in most cases so it would react to the combined effects of both the wah and one or more fuzz boxes. It is important to experiment with how much signal you are driving the Octavia with as this has a great influence on the sound produced.

http://www.roger-mayer.co.uk/octavia.htm
"in most cases". Once again, Roger throws more s**t into the game.

[STOMPmole]

I always wondered if Jimi had a buffer in his wah, I hadnt read anywhere about it.

Roger Mayer claims he used an input buffer on Jimi's wah's in this interview.
http://www.musicgearsource.com/rogermayer.html

FWIW, I have a Roger Mayer wah and the input buffer doesn't do squat other than possibly retain more brilliance from your guitar input.  When I run it into a Fuzz it still doesn't work unless I have a buffer between the OUTPUT of the Wah and the input of the Fuzz.  I had to do several mods to the RM wah to get it where I wanted it...

I built the FET buffer off of the GGG website and it works fine after the RM Wah before the Fuzz.  I also built a Tonepad Wah with pre and post buffers built in and there's no problem with popping or anything with it either.

It's ironic that a Roger Mayer Wah into a Roger Mayer Fuzz doesn't work properly out of the box 

I also dig the quote off of RM's website:

" END OF STORY
"THOSE WHO CAN INVENT DO"
"THOSE WHO CAN'T INVENT COPY"

I guess he couldn't invent when he ripped off the Fuzz Face, Rangemaster, Ratt, Univibe, etc etc etc...

[enigmur]

" END OF STORY
"THOSE WHO CAN INVENT DO"
"THOSE WHO CAN'T INVENT COPY"

I guess he couldn't invent when he ripped off the Fuzz Face, Rangemaster, Ratt, Univibe, etc etc etc...

:icon_lol:haha yeah...

I guess it must have been the octave in Jimi's rig that fed the FF wah...

[Fuzzy-Train]

I tried using the wah output buffer in the layout gallery (same as the fuzzcentral one). It really muddies up my tone, and didn't sound very good before the fuzz, it also made made the wah control the overall fuzz of my octavia for some reason. 

I just stick with my wah after the fuzz and octavia and it sounds just fine.

[tcobretti]

If the buffer on Phil's site doesn't work for you, the one you linked to on ROG's homewrecker is different enough so that it may do the trick for you.

It is pretty well established, however, that Hendrix's live rig was guitar-wah-Octavia-FF (or Mayer Axis fuzz if Jimi was playing a Gibson)-univibe-amp, so the Octavia seems to be the key.

Jimi placed the Octavia after a fuzz and wah unit in most cases so it would react to the combined effects of both the wah and one or more fuzz boxes. It is important to experiment with how much signal you are driving the Octavia with as this has a great influence on the sound produced.

http://www.roger-mayer.co.uk/octavia.htm
"in most cases". Once again, Roger throws more s**t into the game.

This is the pic that led me to my theory of Hendrix's order of pedals.  We had a big discussion about it a while back.