John's PCB Making tips

[Eb7+9]

I was in the market for a new PCB making strategy so to speak and tried out John Lyon's recent tips using Glossy photo paper for transfer and Muratic Acid / Hydrogene Peroxyde combo for etching and it all came out *real* good - much quicker than the Ferrous stuff ... art work down to 0.1 mm came out very well with little to no pithing on large areas (coulda been I rushed the preping in a few spots) ... thanks for your input John !



I also wanted to wish him a speedy recovery from a recent table saw accident that left a finger on his fretting hand injured ...

let's send him a big healing vibe !!

~jc

[SolderBoy]

John Lyon's recent tips

didn't catch those...  Do you have a link?

[calculating_infinity]

John Lyon's recent tips

didn't catch those...  Do you have a link?

Heres John's post on the board
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=56270.0

The direct link
http://www.mrdwab.com/john/How-to-make-PCBs.html

[GREEN FUZ]

Eb7+9, where did you get the dark coloured board? It would be perfect for something I have in mind.

[John Lyons]

Thanks for the nod JC!
Glad you got some good results there with the procedure I wrote out.

The finger is doing ok and the doc says the finger tip will stay!!
Still a bit sore and and getting the stiches out was F***ing agony and set me back a week.
Be careful folks and don't get too confident with those tools...
Positive vibes appreciated. Trying to work on that more and more here.

I have some small amendments to my PCB procedure, so here they are:

I now sand lightly with 400 or 600 grit sand paper in two directions until the board is shiney.
Then I use #0000 steel wool to buff it out a little, not too much but enough to take the edge off from the sandpaper.
Wash well with a clean rag or paper towel and acetone and iron on the patern with the cotton setting as mentioned in the post linked above.
NOTE: The iron I use is an old 60's model and can get screaming hot. I have used the "linen" setting in the past as most people reccomend but I found it too hot and just scorched the paper after 30 seconds. The toner will transfer with much less heat. A laser printer does not get anywhere near the temp of an iron!! When I'n finished the paper is lightly yellowed and that seems about the place to shoot for with your iron temp.


Thanks for the linkage calculating_infinity

John

[GREEN FUZ]

The finger is doing ok and the doc says the finger tip will stay!!

Some people will go to any lenghts to get that Tony Iommi sound. 

[John Lyons]

Ha!...you know I made that joke to a guitarist the other day and he had no idea what I was talking about.
I thought it was funny! Good one...

Also, the board material EB7+9 used is just the light green FR-4 stuff, just the lighting is different and the board looks darker since the copper set the light level...

John

[GREEN FUZ]

the lighting is different and the board looks darker since the copper set the light level...

Aha! That makes sense. Guess I could try staining the standard stuff somehow.

[nephsuperman]

I am trying to see which type of etchant works best for me.  So is the overall opinion that the Muratic acid/Hydrogen Peroxide mixture is better than Ferric acid?   Are the fumes bad for the muratic acid? Is it a function of it being cheaper? How about using ammonium persulfate?  I have heard good things about that stuff because it is easy to store without worry.

The only kind I have tried is Ferric Acid and I didn't like that stuff too much simply becuase of how opaque it gets as it etches.  As for my method, I have been using a stovetop method like a double-boiler.  I have a nonreactive glass pot (visions corning) that I fill halfway with water and then I just put the acid in a little tupperware and keep the water just below boiling, its been taking about 15 minutes to etch the board properly.

[moosapotamus]

All the best, John. Here's to a speedy recovery!

JC - That board looks great!

~ Charlie

[John Lyons]

Thanks Charlie, It's appreciated...

nephsuperman
The good thing about muratic is:
It's clear, It's very cheap, and it's fast.
The only down side it it's a little agressive and I'v had some problems with pitting or pinholes. You can polish it off mostly but it's just a pain.
It may just be my printer though. I've just recieved a new one (actually an 80's HP lazerjet IIIP... tank) so I'll see if the printer was the problem...
I work in a faily large space and the fumes are mainly just when you open the bottle of muratic but they are minimal really.
I like to pour some in a small bottle and refill and use that from time to time so I don't have to slosh around the whole gallon bottle every time I etch a board.

[Hambo]

Sorry for the banal question, but can a sharpie mean any permanent marker type pen? of the sort used for writing stuff on burnt CD's for example?
Or is it a particular type of marker?

[Eb7+9]

The finger is doing ok and the doc says the finger tip will stay!!
Still a bit sore and and getting the stiches out was F***ing agony and set me back a week.
Be careful folks and don't get too confident with those tools...

great news John (*!!*)

I think doubt has its useful purpose at times - and one day maybe I'll write something about how Anglophonia is peculiar in that respect ... I just came out of the bush after bucking some figured maple in the hills behind our house and I like to do a little guidance prayer every time I fire up my Stihl 050 ... I love these semi rainy days spent in the Devil's Club grove - just me and my saw, and the odd cougar spying down from the bluffs on top ...

I would advise etching in open air - I am a little suspicious of the fumes myself - I felt my lungs get a little heavy after a bit of proximity gazing ... people around me had a similar feeling - dunno, better not take any chances with this stuff and be XTRA careful !!

btw, I'm not saying this is guaranteed a better method than others but it did seem that way in my limited experience ... at least it seemed more rapid on a no-heat basis ... and I think the time thing helps keep the traces straight and focused ...

all the best folks ... thx!

~jc

[bean]

I'm getting a bit fed up with ferric chloride and all of its nastiness, so I think I will give the muratic/peroxide solution a try. Tell me, how do you neutralize and dispose yours?

[widdly]

I have some questions on this stuff.  I share a pretty small apartment in a high rise and so lots of power tools is not really an option. So...

Is it possible to drill the pcb without a press?  Or will this mean too many broken drill tips.  I've found dremel type drills in my part of the world but not the presses.  The drill presses I've seen are too big for my humble abode.

Is cutting the copper clad with a hack saw or something similar feasible?  Is there a attachment for a dremel that could be used for this also?

[rockgardenlove]

I drill the PCB without a press.  I just slip the bit way back into the chuck so that only a few millimeters poke out.  Difficult to break this way.  And yeah, I used to use a hacksaw, but recently I've been buying the thin stuff you can cut with scissors.  I like it alot, very easy to use and sturdy enough for me.

[moosapotamus]

Is it possible to drill the pcb without a press?
Is cutting the copper clad with a hack saw or something similar feasible?  Is there a attachment for a dremel that could be used for this also?

I use a spring loaded center punch on all of the pads. It makes a nice little dimple that keeps the drill bit from skidding around. For cutting, you can get cut-off wheels for your dremel that will make a bit of dust, but will cut through the coopper clad pretty well.

~ Charlie

[jrc4558]

The finger is doing ok and the doc says the finger tip will stay!!

Glad to hear that! I almost lost one on the fretting hand two years ago. Had to go to very light strings for almost a year!
HEAL!!!

[hobojoe]

Thanks for the write up I'm definitely going to try the HCL Acid/Peroxide because the ferric chloride stuff is terrible.  Also I never knew they made a drill press thing for a dremel so now I just have to figure out where I can buy one.

And a word of advice for people with newer irons, the one that I have automatically shuts off when you leave it down for an extended period of time so I always have to lift it up to make sure it doesn't shut off when I'm trying to transfer the resist.

Hope your finger gets better quick

[nephsuperman]

thanks for the info john, get well soon.

hobojoe,

I recently got a dremel drill press, it works pretty well, as long as you have a decent Dremel with a high RPM, like 3100 or better.  I got mine online at Do It Best, and got it shipped to a store for free shipping, here is the link:
http://www.doitbest.com/Rotary+Tools-Dremel-model-220-01-doitbest-sku-315397.dib

Its not the best drill press in the world, since alot of it is made out of plastic, but it does the job well enough.  Not bad at all for 38 bucks.

I also have a friend that uses this item from Jameco:
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=26711
Its a little cheaper at $26 but I really cant guarantee that it'll work with a demel.  They do have a mini drill to fit their press though for cheap, like 33 bucks.  But it is a unitasker, and I like multitaskers.