John's PCB Making tips

[John Lyons]

Hambo
Sharpie will work but it doesn't hold up to the Muratic acid as well as ferrec cl. I use a Staedler Lumocolor pen and it seems to work the best. (mark hammer's reccomendation) Avery marks a lot pens seem to work well too. (looks like a silver plastic sharpie)

Eb7+9
Yeah, I'm a pretty skeptical and negative person in some respects but I've been thinking about the positive thought thing a lot more lately.
My mom gave me the "the Secret" book (I know...gasp!) about the law of attraction and although there are a lot of quotes that make me cringe I think it's a valid theory. The money/cars/house/millions of dollars quotes bug me but the overall "positive thinking attracts positive results" makes sense to me. Right before I got bit by the saw blade I was thinking "I'm going to get cut" and then it happened. I actually wasn't cutting anything right then as well. I must have been removing some piece of cutoff or even just not paying attention as I put my hand down near the blade.
I use the Table saw almost every day and have for about 4+ years. It's kind of sureal in my mind now...
I have a stack of quarter sawn oak, cherry and maple drying now...might be just about time to get that bandsaw I've been wanting...quiet and much safer...

A drill press makes things much faster and more accurate. You can use a hand drill and it will work but it depends on how much you build.
A hack saw will work as well but is pretty slow and rough cutting.

Thanks again folks for the thoughts...

John

[nephsuperman]

on the subject of etch resist pens.  I like the lumocolors too, but sometimes the ink still seems to not be thick enough.  I now also use Pilot Super color refill ink in the well.  I just dip the felt tip in the ink slightly and it gives me a nice thick layer of ink.  However using nylon tiped pens doesnt work as well because the ink wants to spill onto the board when it touches. it can be disastrous.  You can get the pilot refill ink at most art stores.

[jaytee]

That board looks nice, what did you use to design it?

[markm]

Very well done tutorial John! 
Great Job!

[forsaknazrael]

I drill the PCB without a press.  I just slip the bit way back into the chuck so that only a few millimeters poke out.  Difficult to break this way.  And yeah, I used to use a hacksaw, but recently I've been buying the thin stuff you can cut with scissors.  I like it alot, very easy to use and sturdy enough for me.

Say, where do you get this thin PCB? I'm finding the one from smallbear to be a hassle to cut, since I don't have a hacksaw at home.

Oh, and John, your method seems very intriguing to me, being a poor college student. I'll have to give it a whack. Thanks!

[markm]

I drill the PCB without a press.  I just slip the bit way back into the chuck so that only a few millimeters poke out.  Difficult to break this way.

I thought I was the only one that did this!! 

[MikeH]

I drill the PCB without a press.  I just slip the bit way back into the chuck so that only a few millimeters poke out.  Difficult to break this way.

I thought I was the only one that did this!! 

I totally do this too.

[GREEN FUZ]

I'm finding the one from smallbear to be a hassle to cut, since I don't have a hacksaw at home.

Try scoring it with a sharp blade, than snap it on a hard surface like the edge of a table. No dust.

[forsaknazrael]

Ya, that's what I do right now. That thin PCB just sounds much easier, haha.

[momo]

Well I just finished etching/drilling 5 circuits using your method John...these are my first ones, well I can say that there is no going back to perf!!
Thanks so much, your method makes it affordable and easy. Oh and I tried the 1/32 thickness 1oz board. Well that is what I will use forever!, you can cut it with scissors, plus the usual small size of the boards makes these perfect.
Oh man, now I "feel" like a pro

[moody07747]

great site, thanks for the link.

I've always liked the idea to make PCB layouts with the etching but it just seems like too much work for my type of projects...I'm happy making them on standard perf board.
I do have one of those kits from radio shack that was on sale...came with  a bunch of stuff.
however I don't have any old iron to use to do any transfers and even then it would be too much work for me

the end result is a great looking board though which is very easy to wire/solder up.

[Eb7+9]

jaytee

I used expressPCB, as per many folks recommendations (John incl.) ... turns out the custom component tool is as convenient as could be - take out a pair of calipers and draw your components to 1mm accuracy and you're rockin' / or get the measuremnts from data sheets ... I'm only interested in single layer so I use the underside copper (green) as an outter outline for the box it's going in ... I print the copper layer on paper, re-scan that output and then resize, clean and invert - I haven't tried printing to file (not sure if you can) ... once the proto-board is vetted I print the art onto an overhead transparency and send that to a cheapo PCB manufacturer - no need for Gerber files

~jc

[John Lyons]

Just for clarification...I did not invent the Muratic and Hydrogen peroxide method, far from it.
It's been posted here many a time way before I ever used it.
Glad people are having some luck with what I laid out though. That was my intention.

I need to do some layout and more unconventional stuff with expressPCB, there are a lot of possibilities there.

John

[moosapotamus]

ExpressPCB is great! And, just because it has "PCB" in it's name doesn't mean that's all you can use it for.

~ Charlie

[Hambo]

Well I have to report my findings..

The glossy paper is terrible. I hated it, it stuck to the copper like shit on a blanket.. it kept sticking to the iron so I had to put greaseproof paper over..and it stuck to that too...It took ages to soak afterwards and the traces came out having to draw half the thing back in with a CD pen.. that guy who said to use bits of magazine is a genius. Almost free (I used an old catalogue) and it transferred my design much tighter and stickier and the paper just washed right off afterwards. Seems good to me. It leaves a bit of the print from the paper on, but not enough to hinder etching I dont think.

Secondly.. I always read these things and conjure up images of the states as a pretty amazing place.. You can go to seemingly any street corner and get practically anything! Don't you people have a huge collection of overpaid Burocrats looking over your shoulder every hour of every day? I'd like a gallon of extremely concentrated hcl please..  annoying ex girlfriend you know.. the usual..

I remember my shock that you can get 95 PERCENT pure alcohol. for christs sake! Anyway.. the by and large is that to get anything in this country that doesnt involve sitting on your arse watching TV or going to sodding work, usually involves a serious Bond style mission. The closest I could find for UK HCL is "Acid Based Brick cleaner" at a builders merchants. At least peroxide is easy to get.. but only in 9% concentration. Incidentally it was about 6 quid for a gallon of acid and a quid for a small bottle of peroxide. Thats like 14 of your US dollars or something. I'm thinking I should just get the ferric chloride.

Well, it works..slowly.. I don't know how fast its supposed to go but it took about 10 minutes and theres still some misty copper coloured patches when you hold it up against the light. Seems to do quite well on aluminium though, leaving a dull etchmark after a few seconds. So maybe this will be ok for enclosures, but ferric for less hassle on the pcbs.

[Ptron]

AFA sodium persulfate goes, I recently used it for the first time and it took wayyy longer than the ferric chloride which I'm used to. I forget just how long but I think it was at least a half hour and probably closer to 45 minutes. In this time, some of the areas I had used a sharpie to fix missing resist began to etch. It came out all right in the end though. I haven't researched this yet, but I wonder if sodium persulfate will work faster if it's mixed at a higher concentration?

[Alex C]

I just did a board using this method, and had great results.  I used the Staples paper in the RED package, and the same steps listed in the writeup.  It took a bit of rubbing with my fingers and a brush to get the pulpy paper remnants off the board, but I only had it in the soapy water for about five minutes instead of the 30 that are recommended; maybe I should look into this whole "following directions" thing.   

This was my first etch with HCl and H2O2, and it went smoothly and quickly.  I really like the price, the speed of the etch, and the transparency of the mixture.  The initial fumes from the gallon jug of the acid are NASTY- the kind that just choke your throat.  In the mixture and during the etch, though, there seemed to be minimal fumes. 

Overall, it was a good experience, and I think this will be my preferred method for now.
Thanks for the tutorial.

-Alex

[John Lyons]

Cool! glad it's working for you.
Try sanding the back of the paper once it's ironed on and just before soaking it. I use 80 grit and gently but evenly sand around the board to get the plastic like coating off the back of the paper. You mainly just want to rough it up so the water will penetrate the paper more easily. This enables you to peel and rub off the paper sooner and without having to peel the whole piece off..it will rub off in layers.
The old Staples paper didn't have a backing and came off so much easier..sigh...

John

[forsaknazrael]

So where would  I dispose of the etchant?

[John Lyons]

I updated a few things on the tutorial due to recent findings and a couple forum members sugestions.
PBC making tutorial

It's in the page but the main thing i found is that Both laser printers I was using are crap for PCBs.
The toner is too thin and the boards had pin holes after the etch. Using a good photocopier made all the difference.
I knew this was the case but it sure is a pain to go somewhere else to print out you paterns...sigh...

John