newb - BYOC Tremolo debugging

nobody · May 22, 2007, 10:55:06 AM

Hey guys, newb here.

I put together a BYOC Tremolo kit and I'm not getting any tremolo effect or lit LED. Signal is passing when the effect is on and using an audio probe I can trace the audio through the circuit. I'm not getting any voltage fluctuations on the gates of the 2N5457. I've reflowed everything, tested that everything is connecting correctly according to the schematic. I'm not sure what to do next.

I've tried getting help over at the BYOC forum, but no one has given me any useful tips. Can one of you guys be so kind to give me some direction on how to debug this blasted thing?

I've built a couple of dirt boxes before and I've done some tube amp work like cap jobs, tracing grounding problems and such. I'm familiar with the proper use of a DMM and soldering iron. I just don't know enough about electronics and effects circuits to know how to troubleshoot more complex problems. I want to learn but I need a little direction.

Thank you in advance.

Auke Haarsma · May 22, 2007, 10:57:43 AM

Hi and welcome!

Please take a look at this debug-thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=29816.0

With that info the guys and ladies over here can help you much better!

nobody · May 22, 2007, 11:01:35 AM

Thank you. I've read that a few times and followed everything except recording the transistor readings. I'll get those when I get home tonight.

R.G. · May 22, 2007, 11:09:16 AM

You know, we see a lot of BYOC debugging questions here. I wonder if the proprietor of BYOC shouldn't be handling these, having been paid for them.

Just a thought.

nobody · May 22, 2007, 11:14:02 AM

Quote from: R.G. on May 22, 2007, 11:09:16 AM
You know, we see a lot of BYOC debugging questions here. I wonder if the proprietor of BYOC shouldn't be handling these, having been paid for them.

Just a thought.

You know, I completely agree. I got a response from him stating that the LFO isn't working. I knew that, I just wanted to know how to fix it.

I did post a message ever there stating my opinion that there needs to be more help for when their kits aren't working.

Auke Haarsma · May 22, 2007, 11:14:41 AM

I think that remark should be aimed at BYOC, not at some1 who's trying to DIY a pedal.

_{If it's b/c they (BYOC) are making money with the work of others (as I sometimes read between the lines) than I understand a reluctance to offer help. However, I don't think you can blame an unknowing (my assumption) DIY-er for that.}

markm · May 22, 2007, 11:19:44 AM

Quote from: nobody on May 22, 2007, 11:14:02 AM
I got a response from him stating that the LFO isn't working.

Product support at it's best!

nobody · May 22, 2007, 11:35:04 AM

Quote from: ponq on May 22, 2007, 11:14:41 AM
I think that remark should be aimed at BYOC, not at some1 who's trying to DIY a pedal.

_{If it's b/c they (BYOC) are making money with the work of others (as I sometimes read between the lines) than I understand a reluctance to offer help. However, I don't think you can blame an unknowing (my assumption) DIY-er for that.}

Thanks for that.

I'm a new DIYer. I bought the BYOC kit because a) it seemed like an easy way to get started without having to source my own parts and b) i've heard the BYOC Tremolo and it sounds good.

When i get this pedal working, I'll be sourcing all my own stuff now that I feel a lot more confident about what to get.

Now about this thread, I don't think the source of my parts should have anything to do with the willingness of others to help. Yeah, I know BYOC seems almost like the poser DIY way to go and I completely understand that frame of mind. Here you guys spent a lot of time sourcing parts, modifying schematics, and building without step-by-step instructions, you don't need some snotty nose newb with his internet kit and burned up PCB asking why his box doesn't work.

I can assure you, I'm not the snotty nose kid type. I'm a computer technician, I am an experienced solderer (sic?) but I'm not an expert and I have virtually little experience with troubleshooting an effects circuit.

R.G. · May 22, 2007, 12:24:43 PM

Quote from: ponqI think that remark should be aimed at BYOC, not at some1 who's trying to DIY a pedal.

If it's b/c they (BYOC) are making money with the work of others (as I sometimes read between the lines) than I understand a reluctance to offer help. However, I don't think you can blame an unknowing (my assumption) DIY-er for that.

I totally agree. You'll notice that my comment mentioned the proprietor of BYOC, not the DIYer at all. Read it again. And there was no blame in it. I was just opining that the proprietor should be handling their business. In any case, I suspect that the propietor of BYOC doesn't necessarily want a detailed dissection of all their stuff in this forum.

As to helping a beginner:

Quote from: nobody
I'm a new DIYer. I bought the BYOC kit because a) it seemed like an easy way to get started without having to source my own parts and b) i've heard the BYOC Tremolo and it sounds good.

I agree - it is an easy (edit) way (/edit) to get started. There's nothing wrong with that, and I don't detect any hint of snot.

Back when I sold boards and kits, I did all my own debugging advice and service. I even (re)built a couple of kits for people who got in over their head. To me, it's the only proper thing to do.

I'll be happy to help you one on one to get it running. But to avoid clogging this forum with things that don't belong here, let's do that by email, not here. My email is keen over at the server geofex, and it's a commercial domain, so use the first three letters at the end.

R.G. · May 22, 2007, 12:30:49 PM

I popped over the the byoc forum and registered. If my registration is approved, I may help them debug. If not, that makes it a lot harder.

markm · May 22, 2007, 12:35:35 PM

Quote from: R.G. on May 22, 2007, 12:30:49 PM
I popped over the the byoc forum and registered. If my registration is approved, I may help them debug. If not, that makes it a lot harder.

That's quite generous of you RG, if they accept you they'd get one of the BEST de-buggers going!
You're very fortunate nobody, RG is VERY talented!

nobody · May 22, 2007, 12:42:44 PM

Quote from: R.G. on May 22, 2007, 12:24:43 PM
I agree - it is an easy (edit) way (/edit) to get started. There's nothing wrong with that, and I don't detect any hint of snot.

Thanks. I've perused this board for awhile and I think it's a good bunch. A few of the guys here I know from other forums.

QuoteI'll be happy to help you one on one to get it running. But to avoid clogging this forum with things that don't belong here, let's do that by email, not here. My email is keen over at the server geofex, and it's a commercial domain, so use the first three letters at the end.

Thank you so much. I'll fire you off a mail.

Bernardduur · May 22, 2007, 12:47:20 PM

Wow, that's weird

I JUST debugged a friends BYOC tremolo

turned out the FET that is there for the tremolo (not the one for the input) was the wrong way around

R.G. · May 22, 2007, 01:01:57 PM

It's funny - the vast majority of problems with first builds are always:
- inexperienced soldering
- component orientation wrong
- component pinout wrong
- wiring wrong

These things yield directly to measuring the DC levels; that's why it's such a potent technique for finding problems. Fish in a barrel, really.

Did your friend place the tremolo JFET in the board backwards to the way the board says to, or did the board outline tell him to put it in backwards?

A.S.P. · May 22, 2007, 01:30:48 PM

did BYOC supply a schematic with the kit?

vanessa · May 22, 2007, 01:40:33 PM

They should provide product support... But it's still DIY and that's what we're all about here. I don't think they provide schematics (Ugh!). If you're building it yourself they should provide you with a schematic right? What pedal is the tremolo cloned from?

Van

scotsman · May 22, 2007, 01:43:46 PM

The schematic is freely available in the kit instructions.

nobody · May 22, 2007, 01:53:03 PM

Quote from: vanessa on May 22, 2007, 01:40:33 PM
They should provide product support... But it's still DIY and that's what we're all about here. I don't think they provide schematics (Ugh!). If you're building it yourself they should provide you with a schematic right? What pedal is the tremolo cloned from?

Van

It's a slightly modified EA Tremolo. They have schematics for most of their pedals.

A.S.P. · May 22, 2007, 01:53:33 PM

sorry, but I never blindly trust schematics that serially connect 2 0.68µF NP caps in a phaseshift LFO without a resistor to ground,

or un-designated LED current limiting resistors or input caps,

while having to fish out,

which of 3 PCBs fit to the schem.

But that`s just me.
And my honest opinion.

Bernardduur · May 22, 2007, 01:55:35 PM

Quote from: R.G. on May 22, 2007, 01:01:57 PM
It's funny - the vast majority of problems with first builds are always:
- inexperienced soldering
- component orientation wrong
- component pinout wrong
- wiring wrong

These things yield directly to measuring the DC levels; that's why it's such a potent technique for finding problems. Fish in a barrel, really.

Did your friend place the tremolo JFET in the board backwards to the way the board says to, or did the board outline tell him to put it in backwards?

Well, the board stated the right way. So he just had to look at the board to see it was in the wrong way around. Wonderful; I noticed it right when I opened up the pedal not even checked anything else like " He, this shouldn't be orientated this way"

I also redid al his soldering as all wires were really bad soldered...... really really bad.

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newb - BYOC Tremolo debugging