Over the edge delay

[DWBH]

Dudes,

Tremolos, Envellope filters, phasers, there's plenty of brands and DIY projects for these effects. I mean, not just a tremolo, but a weird tremolo. For eg, the Wobulator ou the Meatball. Moog also has some interesting phasers. We have the ooh wah, seek trem, etc.

But what about delays? I see delays but they're all the same thing. Aren't there any wacko delays, out there? I'd like to make a delay, but an uncommon delay.

Do you understand?

[tommy.genes]

Any of the common delay projects can be made as un-common as you want depending on what you add to them; feedback loops, clippers, tone shaping, LFO to modulate parameters, "slam" switches  etc. Do some reading about mods people have done to their Rebote, PT-80, Boss DD-2 or DD-3 and others.

One over-the-top delay project (really just a schematic) I remember was the Doomsdelay Device by Brett Sinclair, but you will notice he was just piecing together sections from other delays, including some that I named above.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=39026.0

EDIT: Check out these clips done with fairly simple mods to a Dano FAB Echo (not mine, just to illustrate).

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=41465.msg447860#msg447860

-- T. G. --

[Mark Hammer]

A number of truly interesting sounds can be achieved by running your feedback loop through some sort of external processor.  Keep in mind that each repeat that gets processed will be different from the one before and after it.

I have a project planned (and for me, that's a bit like saying "I breathed today") involving a pair of SHecho boards (Dean Hazelwanter's marriage of the HT8955 delay chip and PT-80 circuit) mounted in a rack-sized chassis.  The input can be mono or stereo or mono split to two paths.  Where it gets interesting is in the routing of the regeneration/feedback loop.  The plan is to be able to send the feedback path of one of the boards to the feedback return of the other, via a processing loop, in addition to the normal sorts of signal routing.  Since the delay time for each board can be independently set and each loop can be independently processed, you can pretty much let your imagination run wild about what the sonic possibilities are.  The delays themselves are limited to 800msec but that's more than enough time to have a single riff come back wearing an entirely different disguise each and every time.  Now that I think of it, the feedback-loop output of Delay B can also be the input signal of Delay A.  Crazy, just crazy.

What originally got me thinking about this was the reprocessing capabilities of the Echo Park, where you can plug into one of the two inputs, take the corresponding output, process, and plug into the other input.

Is that "over the edge" enough for you?

[DWBH]

It sure is.

But, sorry for my noobiness, what's a feedback loop?

[DWBH]

A delay with a stereo output a dry/wet thingie, 2 switches for 2 delay presets, expression pedal would be an over the edge delay....

That Doomsdelay seems great. It'd be really nice to get a layout or something...

[Mark Hammer]

It sure is.

But, sorry for my noobiness, what's a feedback loop?

That's the path from the end of the delay-producing circuitry back to the input.  Normally is is a simple matter of a few passive components and a "mix" knob, all hardwired to be able to achieve all variations between endless repeat or oscillation and very tiny amounts of delay repeated, but you can arrange for it to be like a send/return loop found on amps, such that before it gets returned to the beginning of the delay path it is transformed in some way.

[choklitlove]

a couple mods to the rebote can make some pretty uncommon sounds.

http://geocities.com/worthekik/echobuild.html


video (about half way is the crazy stuff):

[DWBH]

What about Send and Return? We connect them together? 

If connect these with some cables
, what will happen?


EDIT: Shit. Instead of posting a reply, I edited this one. D'oh!

[DWBH]

Oh, btw, I'm getting a Danelectro PB&J delay. In experimentalistsanonymous forum, those guys have done some mods to it (Sandwich Echo, i think). Unfortunately, there's only a schematic, and thus, no images (yes, images do help). Has anyone done this to a PB&J.

[tommy.genes]

What about Send and Return? We connect them together? 

Any delay will have a feedback path internally. That's how you get multiple repeats. By adding SEND and RETURN jacks, you are adding the option of putting another pedal into that feedback path. If you put a distortion in that loop, the played note would be clean, the first repeat would be distorted, the 2nd repeat would be more distorted etc.

You can "normal" the SEND and RETURN jacks so that, if nothing is plugged into them, the delay still works as you would expect, i.e. the internal feedback path is preserved. If, however, you plug a cable from the SEND jack to the input of another pedal, and plug a second cable from the output of that other pedal into the RETURN jack, you have now broken that internal feedback path and created a new path - through the other pedal - in its place.

To make this "normal" or "normalized" connection, you will need to use a "normally closed" or "switching" jack (Aron has some in his store). I think someone really needs to draw up a diagram on how to do this so it can be added to the Wiki/FAQ. I don't mind doing it, but I'm not sure it's going to happen today since I actually have work to do. Keep your eyes on this thread, though...

-- T. G. --

[Mark Hammer]

Can we control the amount of times that the signal is re-processed?

Depends on what you mean by number of times.  There is no easy way to determine the specific number of repeats with a non-tape-based delay.  If it is a multi-head tape unit, then you can simply switch on 1, 2, 3, etc playback heads and the signal will be repeated that many times.  In an analog or digital system, all you can do is determine how much attenuation is imposed on the recirculated signal.  That will have an indirect effect on the number of repeats beyond the first repeat.  If you take away 12db of signal level each time the signal is recirculated, then you won't have the signal recirculating for very long and you won't get "many" repeats, but you have no way of knowing HOW many.

[gez]

I've mentioned this before, but a really cool effect I heard once on a dance track was an echo that reduced in quality as well as volume with each repeat (multiple repeats).  Might have been a bit-crunching effect, and was probably added in the studio with someone turning the knob on something as the signal was run thru an echo, but it was cool - as though the sound was disintergrating over time.

I'd buy it...

[DWBH]

I've mentioned this before, but a really cool effect I heard once on a dance track was an echo that reduced in quality as well as volume with each repeat (multiple repeats).  Might have been a bit-crunching effect, and was probably added in the studio with someone turning the knob on something as the signal was run thru an echo, but it was cool - as though the sound was disintergrating over time.

I'd buy it...

Delay with feedback loop with a bit crusher?

[caress]

i've been working up a s&h and/or LFO controlled delay...s&h/LFO controls delay time for pitch bending/skipping weirdness.

[gez]

I've mentioned this before, but a really cool effect I heard once on a dance track was an echo that reduced in quality as well as volume with each repeat (multiple repeats).  Might have been a bit-crunching effect, and was probably added in the studio with someone turning the knob on something as the signal was run thru an echo, but it was cool - as though the sound was disintergrating over time.

I'd buy it...

Delay with feedback loop with a bit crusher?

The last time I mentioned this, someone linked to a box that had a knob that could be turned to do the bit-crushing, but it would be cool if it was integrated into a delay, then it could be in stompbox form and you wouldn't need a third hand to turn the knob (the box would automatically degrade the signal with each repeat).

[DWBH]

What's tap tempo?

[tommy.genes]

Well, I took a little bit of time I shouldn't have spent and put together something that was less than what I'd hoped to do, but here's a diagram of one way a normalled (technically half-normalled) delay feedback loop can be built.



Here's a pretty good photograph of a normally closed jack, which shows how insertion of a plug breaks the connection shown (by the black arrowhead) in the return jack above.

Which came from this Wikipedia article about phone jacks and plugs in general, which is also fairly informative.

-- T. G. --

[puretube]

I love overthetop-thruzero- and -beyond delays...

[Processaurus]

Definitely the external feedback loop for a simple delay is great bang for your buck, it may even find a home for pedals you never use (wah, envelope filters, chorus, pitch shifters, graphic eq's, ring mods, etc).

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I love overthetop-thruzero- and -beyond delays...

Yeah, it would be useful, because after the delay went past zero it would tell you what you were going to be playing in the near future.