Kadent Treblefuzz

[Sir H C]

So I think this schematic is right.  I am going review at home the values, but it makes sense, a fuzzface and a booster in parallel.  Never is the booster bypassed.

[Meanderthal]

 Cool! A couple minor adjustments and this would make a nifty bass fuzz! Thanks!

[Dan N]

Wow! I've only ever seen one on ebay.

http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/04_1.JPG

Is it p2p like the Maestro and Goya?

Thanks for the schematic!

[RLBJR65]

Thanks Sir H C! Love seeing new schematics.

[petemoore]

  Cats cradle made w/ block and tackles !
  I can't read how it works.
  That's a hard 'glance over',  signal  travel lines, switches, feedback loop[s?
  It gets hard to tell which line is pushing and which line is 'pulling' much less how fast one would win during the tug 'o 'wars
  The ground is assumed as the bottom horiz line that goes up then horiz again...
  Some more markings would make it clearer, concerning the grounding scheme and polarities.
  It looks like 3 gain stages, but I'm not sure I understand that it'd work.
  Q2 looks like a buffer topology with the transistor turned around the wrong way?
  the emitter going straight to..what'd be V- [pnp pos gnd], and the collector w/10k to 'ground?
  Just the opposite, Q1 looks like a buffer stage topology looking at the E/C resistance distribution and base biasing...but with the transistor flipped...?
  Perhaps someone could read into it more than I am.

 
 

[moosapotamus]

Looks cool! Maybe positive ground? It would be helpful to indicate the power and ground connections.

~ Charlie

[Gus]

The top part is an inverting amp with a little greater than 22K input R

The bottom is a little like a ff(is the 10uf in the right spot in the feedback path?) If you move it to the emitter R it is a small gain and bias change.  It has two inverting stages so it is non inverting overall

You have different freg shaping and gains and the outputs are flipped(but not before distorting then differently)

The vol pot is a kind of subtraction mix control but because of the freg shaping It will change with input level and mixing

Kind of reminds me of the control fuzz

[Sir H C]

  Cats cradle made w/ block and tackles !
  I can't read how it works.
  That's a hard 'glance over',  signal  travel lines, switches, feedback loop[s?
  It gets hard to tell which line is pushing and which line is 'pulling' much less how fast one would win during the tug 'o 'wars
  The ground is assumed as the bottom horiz line that goes up then horiz again...
  Some more markings would make it clearer, concerning the grounding scheme and polarities.
  It looks like 3 gain stages, but I'm not sure I understand that it'd work.
  Q2 looks like a buffer topology with the transistor turned around the wrong way?
  the emitter going straight to..what'd be V- [pnp pos gnd], and the collector w/10k to 'ground?
  Just the opposite, Q1 looks like a buffer stage topology looking at the E/C resistance distribution and base biasing...but with the transistor flipped...?
  Perhaps someone could read into it more than I am.

Sorry, using a schematic capture tool that I am not that good with (expressPCB's) so I don't do too well with it.  Yes, positive is ground, negative supply pedal, if there is not a dot crossing lines do not join, and never should there be a joining with 4 lines (to ensure that a crossing is not thought of as a connection).  These are the schematic capture rules I try to live by.

Gus has it pretty much sussed out, it is a booster that has a fuzzface in parallel when you hit the fuzz switch.

Dan, there was one on e-bay, busted sold for quite a bit, then this one came up, busted too for a lot less.  Turns out someone changed the input jack to the wrong kind and had the input shorting to ground.  Changed the jack, and it works "fine" other than the treble boost switch seems not to function.

[Sir H C]

Wow! I've only ever seen one on ebay.

http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/04_1.JPG

Is it p2p like the Maestro and Goya?

Thanks for the schematic!

It is P2P, standoffs, just like the Applied and Goya.  The circuit is very similar to those too.  Great 60s splatter fuzz sound.

[analogguru]

Only with the poor quality guts from ebay I come to this result:
Kadent Treblefuzz schematic

The other Kadent had an On/Off switch, C5 and C8 were 100n Philips (tropical fish) film-capacitors, and C7 seems to be 25 µF.

C6 seems to be a little bit high with 1n5, all others (Goya, Applied) used only 47p there.

IMHO the Kadent was the first, then came Goya and after this the Applied stuff.  I am still researching on that subject.

The principle is always the same:
mix of a treble booster and a fuzz, when the harmonics from the fuzz disappear, the paralleled treble boost is still in action, so the sound changes from Fuzz to Treble boost as the note decays (if the treble boost is on).

@Sir H C
is there really a connection between the slider (emitter) and the outer lug (1k5) of the "Fuzz Booster"-poti ?

analogguru

[Sir H C]

The cap I have marked 1n5 is a ceramic with 1500 on it.  I will look again at the pot, but 99% sure that the two terminals are connected.

[analogguru]

1500 is an uncommon marking for the capacitance, maybe it is the voltage rating (1500V) ?
What´s written on the other side of the cap ?

It would make sense if this two pins would be connected together, but on the pictures from ebay (and also from the second one this couldn´t be seen clearly, and the emitter goes to the slider lug, while the 1k5 goes to the outer lug, for this reason I am asking.

the 22k should be at the treble switch, as shown in my schematic, and not at the output.

Interesting on your unit is, that there is neither a power switch (like on the othe one on ebay) nor an interruption of the battery supply through the input (output)jack.

Is there a date code on the electrolytics ?

analogguru

[Sir H C]

I put a switching jack on the input, the one there was wrong and I don't know what is right.  The pots are Allen-Bradley of all things, nice quality ones.  Sealed IIRC.  The two lugs are tied together.  Will get better pictures the ones i took don't show the interesting bits.

[Sir H C]

1500 is an uncommon marking for the capacitance, maybe it is the voltage rating (1500V) ?
What´s written on the other side of the cap ?

It would make sense if this two pins would be connected together, but on the pictures from ebay (and also from the second one this couldn´t be seen clearly, and the emitter goes to the slider lug, while the 1k5 goes to the outer lug, for this reason I am asking.

the 22k should be at the treble switch, as shown in my schematic, and not at the output.

Interesting on your unit is, that there is neither a power switch (like on the othe one on ebay) nor an interruption of the battery supply through the input (output)jack.

Is there a date code on the electrolytics ?

analogguru

1500 is the voltage, other side says 47, so 47pF.

Yes, 22k is misplaced.

The 33k off the emitter of the boost transistor could well be 330 ohms, the third band is hard to see and is orangish-brown.

The fuzz pot is that way, but the 47k is 4.7k off the other lug. 

The pots are Patent applied for AB pots, no noticable date codes on them though.

[analogguru]

The 33k off the emitter of the boost transistor could well be 330 ohms, the third band is hard to see and is orangish-brown.

I am sure that it is 330 ohms, was normal these days to have this resistor for temperature stabilisation.  There should be about 0,5 to 1 V DC acros this resistor.

The fuzz pot is that way, but the 47k is 4.7k off the other lug.

On one side this is really crazy, input impedance [AC] (with fuzz switched on) only 4.7k !!!
On another side this makes sense since the schematic for the goya panther floating around also shows only 4k7 there.  I thought this would be a mistake.

You can try the following:
Turn the Fuzz off, Treble boost on.  Fuzz Intensity minimum, Fuzz volume minimum.
Now switch the Fuzz on and off.  It should be audible (volume drop, treble loss) when you switch the fuzz on.

The pots are Patent applied for AB pots, no noticable date codes on them though.

I was asking, if there is any info (numbers) on the electrolytic capacitors which would lead to a date.

I assume that your Kadent is the oldest of all Kadent, Goya and Applied fuzzes.  It would then date to approx. 1965.

The reason for my hypothesis:
Your Kadent uses the smaller (TO-1) 2N 2613 as used in the Maestro Fuzztone.
All other Kadent, Goya, Applied use TO-5 transistors (stamped and unstamped).
Unstamped would make sense since in this time it was not important how it distorts, only that it distorts, so every cheap junk what would not fulfill the specs was used for a distortion box.  (Have a look at the Colorsound Tonebender transistors, they are junk Ge-"HF"-transistors (e.g. 2N 588) - maybe they bought 50.000 or 100.000 pcs of this "useless junk" for peanuts).
The Kadent and older Goya used a different switch (old fashioned non encapsuled) for the Battery test and a removable lamp.
All Kadent, Goya, Applied used axial electrolytics - except yours (radial).
All Kadent, Goya, Applied used 100n at the Fuzz input - except yours (10µF electrolytic).
Goya and Applied used on later models 1M/470k at the base of the treble boost - and 27k (47k) input (feedback) impedance on the fuzz part.

So my hypothesis:
There was a "boutique builder" in 1965 making Kadent Fuzzes.  Then he made a contract with Goya, first the Panther then the boom box.  Maybe the contract ran out and he still tried to make some money with the brand name Applied (Fuzz and Treble Booster/ Big Bass).

But:  WHO WAS THIS SECRET "BOUTIQUE BUILDER", and where was he located?

And was the "Super Sweep" Phaser from the same guy ?

analogguru

[Sir H C]

I have all three of these fuzzes, they are actually all here with me at the office.  I can do some comparisons.  The Super Sweep screams Japan, I think that it is different as the case is all metal, not wood for the backing as the other three are.  I can not find anything with a date on it in the Kadent, though it does say made in the USA. 

[Dan N]

I have all three of these fuzzes, they are actually all here with me at the office.

You, sir, are a wildman!

Thanks to you and analoguru!