How come there is no CE-1 clones out there ?

[solarplexus]

Is it because it is too complicated to make or just because it doesn't sound good enough (hype) ?

I mean... why pay 200-300$ for a chorus when you came make one right?

Is is because some of the parts are obsolete?

Just wondering...

[jonathan perez]

id like to know as well..thank you for asking, solarplexus.

[MikeH]

I had my hands on one a while back that I was repairing for a friend (I posted some guts pics).  Yeah, they're pretty complicated on the inside.  Big board, lot's of components.  It has it's own internal power supply, so I doubt it runs on 9V.  It's also just not that great sounding IMO; it seemed to overload and distort too easily for my taste (maybe better with single coils), and it was also quite a bit on the noisy side.  The vibe setting was pretty cool though.

Here's a link to the thread with the gut pics:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=56341.0

[analogmike]

There is a guy making clones of those. But not sure where he gets the MN3002 chips or if he uses those original chips.

They sound good with a mod on the volume pot, but without seperate speed and depth controls they are not very flexible.

[solarplexus]

So the MN3002 is obsolete ? 

[Ben N]

I thought the Voodoo Labs Chorus was supposd to be a CE-1 clone. I've never used one, but I get the impression that there is a lot of hype in the notion that the CE-1 is some sort of holy grail of choruses.

Ben

[MikeH]

Yeah, I'd say a "Holy Grail" it is not.  Unless you like hiss... then it's awesome.  I think people think they're so awesome because they're so old and expensive.  I'd say it's got nothing on modern choruses, analog or digital.  Egad!  I said the "D" word! 

[solarplexus]

Ok the chip is definitely not obsolete... but expensive!

[Joe Kramer]

"Obsolete" in semiconductor parlance means the part is no longer being manufactured.  Nobody has made the MN3002 chip for a long time (20+ years), therefore definitely obsolete.  But just because it's obsolete doesn't mean it's not useful for somebody, and that's why they become expensive.  A still somewhat useful part not being made any more equals more $$$--at least until the Chinese get busy with it, and God bless them for that.  I wonder when they'll start making CA3080s again? . . .

[dano12]

Voodoo Labs analog chorus is often mentioned as a clone.

The Retrosonic Chorus is a clone, the latest versions use a charge pump.

[GREEN FUZ]

I don`t think it`s a bad sounding chorus. Mine doesn`t suffer from the distortion or hiss mentioned previously. I think it`s desirability is due to the fact that it was allegedly BOSS`s first entry into the effects pedal arena. I doubt if it`s true but some reviewers make the claim that BOSS literally invented the Chorus.

[MartyMart]

I've got to say that i LOVE my CE-1 , dont have any "crunch" issues and it sounds gorgeous
It wasn't that expensive, but even 15 years ago they were £80 !

MM.

[Mark Hammer]

Voodoo Labs analog chorus is often mentioned as a clone.

The Retrosonic Chorus is a clone, the latest versions use a charge pump.

My buddy here in Ottawa, Tim Larwill, makes the latter, and I have followed its continuing development with interest.  As far as I know, Tim did score a stock of MN3002 chips which he continues to use, though personally I do not know that they make THAT much difference, relative to other BBDs.  Over the last few years, he has worked on a couple of things to improve the pedal from the original, while retaining the nice parts of the original.

• The wet-signal gate that serves as the means of noise control has been tailored a bit to improve its performance.
• The input impedance has been improved upon immensely.  The original had too low an input impedance, and was probably designed for taking feeds from keyboards or other Boss pedals.  If you're feeding it from a low output-impedance device that's not a problem, but the omnipresence of true bypass these days means that even when guys are running through 4 or 5 pedals before the CE-1, there is no guarantee that the CE-1 is NOT seeing the output of the guitar directly.
• Changes to the input stage also necessitated working on the gain structure across the circuit so as to keep things from clipping.  He has worked long and hard to make it clean.
• The power supply accounted for the brunt of the footprint of the original.  Tim arranged to have a charge pump chip made for him that would allow the user to use a standard Boss-type 9v DC adaptor and convert that into a bipolar supply internally.  One of the side-benefits of this is that where he previously lacked the space to accommodate a stereo output like the original before he had the charge pump, now he has a stereo output.  Players seem to appreciate the convenience of being able to use their normal power supply as well.

Myself, I was never a huge fan of the CE-1.  I didn't dislike it, but I have to say that when I borrowed an original from a friend's son to repair, I wasn't that blown away by it.  It was a chorus, and had some conveniences that were of only minimal use to me.  Personally, I prefer having a mix control to ease back on the chorus intensity, but that's me.  The conveniences may of of great use to others.

[hairyandy]

I bought a Retro Sonic CE-1 clone from Tim when I was up in Ottawa last year and I love it.  I think the reason that you don't see clones of this circuit mainly lies in the power supply as Mark pointed out.  Tim's clone sounds great, I've A-B'd it with a friend's original and it's really, really close---almost exactly the same actually.  This thing is one of my favorite chorus' and you can get a REALLY good leslie/vibe kinda thing out of it, much better than with a CE-2 IMO.

Andy

[Jackie Treehorn]

I bought a CE-1 a couple weeks ago.  It was broken, so I got it for $10.  Turns out the only thing that was broken was the power switch!!

Anyway, I think it's my favorite chorus pedal, although I really hate chorus pedals for the most part. Really organic sounding, not so thin and metallic sounding.  I've got a ce-2 somewhere that does not really sound close.  The vibrato is very nice.

Here are a couple PCB shots if anyone is interested in doing some experimentation....  The PCB is 12 cm x 16 cm

http://www.theinside.net/misc/CE1PCBFront.JPG
http://www.theinside.net/misc/CE1PCBback.JPG

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Steve at SmallBear appears to have MN3002 for $6, that isn't unreasonable, if anyone wants to get going on one.