rolling stones -type distortion

[Mandrake754]

Just curious, what'd be the best pedal to get the... i don't know what to call it... like 'honky' overdrive that you can hear clearly in "can't you hear me knocking" especially at the beginning of the song. I thought it might be like an overdriven AC-30 or something, so I looked into the English Channel. I've only heard the clip of the English Channel that's at ROG, but it didn't sound like it would get too close from that clip... i could be wrong.

Is that the pedal I'd want to build, or is there something more suitable for this overdrive?

[SonicVI]

That was '71, they were using Ampeg V4/V22 amps at that time I believe.

[MikeH]

Maybe try the Eighteen?  It's a little lower in gain than the English Channel.  More crunch.

[Mandrake754]

that v4 is gonna be one hell of a schematic for me to JFETify lol... if i have luck i'll post results.

[petemoore]

  I wonder when I read so'n so used 'X' amp.
  I read they used Gold Line tubes?, [or was that Gold Lion] no longer available.
  I would guess the speakers were 'upgrade' models, as in top of the line, probably vox.
  The overall tone on that song has such a nice bark. The leads at the end are among my favorites to play / listen to. 
  I had a V4, but it didn't get anything close to that at the time.
 

[Mandrake754]

couldn't agree more. I would love to find a way to get me to that tone... it's just beautiful. So you dont think just a JFETed v4 is the way to get me there? I've never heard a v4 in person, and dialup doesnt make it too easy to get clips.

Anyone else happen to know a direction to point me for that tone/overdrive?

[Phorhas]

Does anyone have the "tone" transformer's inductance data?

[MikeH]

I have a v4, and to get those type of tones you have to crank it so loud you can't be in the same room.  At the time those amps were designed for "stadium" type volume levels.  So you can get 30 watt tone at 150 decibels 

[B Tremblay]

For me, what I always yearn to recreate are the guitar sounds from the 1971 "Get Your Leeds Lungs Out" live recording of the Stones, specifically the beginning of Stray Cat Blues.

I've gotten close with the following circuits - all at the 'Groove, coincidentally

English Channel
Double D (Jiggle Channel)
Peppermill
Omega

[Mark Hammer]

Maybe its just me, or the speakers, but I've always found it almost impossible to escape that tone when I use 4049-based pedals.  There is a certain "grunt" that they have.

[AL]

I have a v4, and to get those type of tones you have to crank it so loud you can't be in the same room.  At the time those amps were designed for "stadium" type volume levels.  So you can get 30 watt tone at 150 decibels 

They don't make guitar cables long enough to get away from that earth mover when it's cranked. The transformers are humongous. 150 db HAHAHAHAAA!!!!!     That's above the threshhold of pain - sounds about right.

ROG has an SB-12 - ampeg portaflex (flip-top) - which are fantastic sounding amps. Some people use them as bass amps but I have one and it's the best sounding guitar amp I own.

http://www.runoffgroove.com/flipster.html

AL

[Ben N]

To me that is pure cranked-amp tone, a lot like the Townshend Hiwatt tone--there are some definite similarities between the big Hiwatts and Ampegs of that era, IMHO--fundamentally clean, powerful amps with (a lot of) the magic happening between the power tubes, OT, the speakers and the room, without the eq anomalies of a Twin or Dual Showman, or the preamp crunch or OT saturation of a Marshall. Very hard to simulate in a stompbox, because a lot of it is sheer power, wth clarity.
Ben

[8mileshigh]

I can nail those tones with my old Bandmaster Reverb, a one knob cream pie booster and my Tokai Love Rock.  Ben is right, this is cranked amp tone so I'd start with a good booster.

Chris

[Ben N]

Chris, that sounds like a awesome setup.

Along those lines, as a booster you might consider a Colorsound Overdriver. The eq is similar to that in a V22, and can be tweaked even closer, and it can be run anywhere from a clean boost to a near-fuzz depending on the gain. I still say a lot depends on your amp and cabinet.

[Mark Hammer]

And again, do not discount the older E-H Hot Tubes - pure amp grunt.  NOT your dad's fuzzbox or smooth sustaining overdrive.  It just sounds like an amp muttering "Oh jeez, do I gotta play that loud?"

[MetalGod]

Yep, it was cranked Ampegs on that song - probably my fave Stones tone ever (and I was just playing it earlier on).

There's an aggressive fuzzy edge to the top end on the guitar track but the bass strings are quite muddy - closest I can get is my Tele's neck humbucker.

[Sir H C]

Those Ampegs have inductors for the mids controls.  You can really crank the mids up and get that honk.  Try some mild overdrive with a graphic or parametric EQ to boost those mids and you can get there.

[Mandrake754]

someone posted that it's a tone the twins jsut cant do, which is unfortunate for me 

I happen to play through my own homemade clone of a '59 Fender twin head sitting atop a 1960a marshall cab.

I'll continue with my Omega build and see where that gets me. Too bad the twin is another one of those 'cranked so loud you ears cant take it' overdrives.

[Ben N]

I think that was me, and I didn't exactly say you can't do it with a Twin. You are right, a Twin is similar in that you need to blow your head of to get it to its sweet spot, but it does have a different freq response, with the distinctive mid-dip, which you would have to compensate for. Now that is about a silver/black-fac Twin. Yours, coupled with a closed cab, probably sounds a lot more like a Marshall or a Bassman, and it is not something I have any personal exerience with. You can add distortion, but you can't take it away. Or to put it another way, if the amp is too clean, you can find the right OD pedal; if the eq is wrong, you can try to eq it at the input; but if it is too dirty, all you can do is turn down.

[puretube]

Didn`t see a single twin on stage
(I`d say it were Bassmen...)