Building a pedal to add thickness/beef up to my tone

gutsofgold · July 29, 2007, 07:14:45 PM

I play a Fender Tornado into a Marshall JCM900 and at times I'm really struggling to keep it from sounding tinny and ear peircing (when I'm playing lead lines). What kind of pedal would simply put some "meat" back into my tone when I'm playing lead and not rhythm. I was thinking of tonepad's TS808 with a few mods for more bass but I guess even the 808 is a bit to grainy sounding. Is there just a really fat tone I can get from a pedal?

GibsonGM · July 29, 2007, 07:21:55 PM

Try building and LPB-2. It boosts mids (important considering your axe) and adds crunch, but isn't in the class of an overdrive or distortion. I love mine...set the amp clean and it makes it punchy ("Little Wing")...set dirty, and you get Blue Oyster Cult "Godzilla-like tones". It's not totally clean, so it will give just a shade more grit when you kick on for leads - mainly by filtering and kicking the preamp tubes. Simple build, too!

jlullo · July 29, 2007, 07:25:35 PM

you could also give the omega boost a shot!

i finished a rangemaster today, and have the input cap switchable to a .01uf cap. to tell you the truth, this might be a circuit you could play with as well. the .01uf cap made a nice middy sound, and i'm sure if you went higher you might find what you were looking for

m-theory · July 29, 2007, 07:34:38 PM

I'm a big fan of getting things right with the amp and guitar first, and then using pedals to enhance the tone you've got, not to repair broken tone.

If it were my amp, I'd take it in for a visit with my amp Dr. A good tech can work magic, especially if you're able to tell him what's missing with it.

tcobretti · July 29, 2007, 07:38:12 PM

To me the JCM series can only sound tinny and ear piercing. What I would try is an EQ pedal to cut some of the abrasive highs and boost the mids and lows. I had a friend with a JCM900, and the best it ever sounded was on the clean channel with a Brian
May Treble Booster pushing it. It sounded almost like an anemic Plexi.

markm · July 29, 2007, 07:55:43 PM

Don't forget that the guitar has a tone control!
Amp EQ settings are quite different when playing with a band so maybe messing with that first and go from there.

moro · July 29, 2007, 08:27:26 PM

Have you tried different pickups? I agree with m-theory that you should start with your guitar and amp.

jlullo · July 29, 2007, 08:37:53 PM

i definitely agree with you guys about working on the sound of the amp and guitar first, but isn't this characteristic of most marshalls of that series?

markm · July 29, 2007, 09:00:03 PM

Quote from: jlullo on July 29, 2007, 08:37:53 PM
i definitely agree with you guys about working on the sound of the amp and guitar first, but isn't this characteristic of most marshalls of that series?

Not sure.
I'm a Fender guy!

jlullo · July 29, 2007, 09:19:13 PM

i went through a whole bunch of marshalls with my band, and then i gave them up and started playing Orange amps. needless to say, i haven't turned back since. the other guitarist in my band has a JCM 800 combo that he uses, and it sounds good but it has that typical harshness that he is describing. fooling around with tubes is probably the way to go in this case. i don't think changing the pickups on a tornado is going to be drastically different unless he is going back and forth from a super high gain pickup and a low gain one. i think those guitars (from what i can remember about them) have a pretty distinct sound

theblackman · July 30, 2007, 01:06:36 AM

i hear KT88 tubes make marshalls sound fatter. ACDC and Smashing Pumpkins used them.

Barcode80 · July 30, 2007, 01:11:15 AM

jonathan, orange amps....

you are so emo

seriously, orange is a good investment. the marshalls (i usually play marshall, and have for years) can be a tad harsh, but i've never noticed it to be so bad that the right pedal/eq couldn't fix it

guitarhacknoise · July 30, 2007, 01:24:12 AM

I second the blackman....6550's
i've been runnin' em in my 50w jcm800 for over 15 years now....
also listen to m-theory.....
open up that guitar and measure those pick-up's
check out the output cap etc.
if you can't get a thick tone from a neck p.u. and the kt-88's then something is off (imho).

jlullo · July 30, 2007, 02:56:15 AM

Quote from: Barcode80 on July 30, 2007, 01:11:15 AM
jonathan, orange amps....

you are so emo

seriously, orange is a good investment. the marshalls (i usually play marshall, and have for years) can be a tad harsh, but i've never noticed it to be so bad that the right pedal/eq couldn't fix it

haha i'm not emo

i'm definitely into certain marshalls... when they sound good they sound good!

Rodgre · July 30, 2007, 04:22:55 AM

After reading through this thread, I am also of the opinion that if I were suffering from a thin tone with a JCM900, I would definitely look at the chain of guitar-amp-speaker before I tried a pedal. While an EQ or compressor might help thicken up your tone, with an amp like a JCM900, which is typically run with super high gain, adding a pedal to an already super-distorted tone might just serve to make matters worse.

I have gotten good tones out of 900s in the studio, though I tend to prefer old school JCM800s, when it comes to heavy Marshall tones. I think there are so many places in the chain that would make a great difference in tone. You should really experiment with seeing if different pickups, tubes and/or speakers give you what you're after,

Trying a different guitar will be a telling scenario. You don't have to invest in new pickups or tubes, etc, off the bat. Plugging in something like a Gibson Les Paul with nice pickups (57 Classics, for example) will tell you if your solution might be in the guitar/pickups. The Tornado has two humbuckers, Putting in a really warm and sweet sounding pickup instead of the stock Fender might be a great improvement.

Roger

Jaicen_solo · July 30, 2007, 05:39:45 AM

I use a 900 in the studio all the time, and i'm pretty sure I know where your problem is.The stock tonestack incorporates a loudness contour. To get flatish response, I think you have to turn Mid to 70%, bass fully off and treble just above 25%.
If you're trying to use the lead channel to give you chunky rhythm you'll have the mids set below half way, and treble probably up past half way. To get a good lead tone, you need to reverse that. I use bass at 25%, Middle at least 75% (full up for my strat) and treble at 30% to keep the sparke. Also, you get more fizz the more gain you use, so consider backing off the gain and turning up the master. That works wonders if you ask me.

tcobretti · July 30, 2007, 07:12:10 AM

Quote from: Jaicen_solo on July 30, 2007, 05:39:45 AM
I use a 900 in the studio all the time, and i'm pretty sure I know where your problem is.The stock tonestack incorporates a loudness contour. To get flatish response, I think you have to turn Mid to 70%, bass fully off and treble just above 25%.
If you're trying to use the lead channel to give you chunky rhythm you'll have the mids set below half way, and treble probably up past half way. To get a good lead tone, you need to reverse that. I use bass at 25%, Middle at least 75% (full up for my strat) and treble at 30% to keep the sparke. Also, you get more fizz the more gain you use, so consider backing off the gain and turning up the master. That works wonders if you ask me.

This is great advice, and very scientific!

brett · July 30, 2007, 07:32:49 AM

Hi
this can be a problem even on the high gain channel of my JTM60 (the reissue with a highish gain channel).
Fortunately, I find that 2 things work well: (i) backing off the gain and increasing the volume, and (ii) winding back the treble control and/or using some equalisation to boost mids at the expense of highs.
Boosting the region around 800 to 1200 Hz will fatten things up for sure. (Interestingly, the 'varitone' control on Gibsons does almost the reverse - it creates a 12dB cut at 1100 Hz to convert the humbuckers to a single coil sound (when set to '3').)
cheers

audioguy · July 30, 2007, 12:28:16 PM

Before building anything I would look at your stings. For beefy tone you'll need nothing lower than 10's. Most guys known for meaty tone use 11's or 12'. SRV, Malcolm Young, hell even the guys from Peal Jam used 12's on the 1st album which had great guitar sound.
Experiment with values like .011 / .014 / .018 / .030 / .042 / .052- this will give a thick tone at the source rather than adding components to your signal flow.

Have fun!

Jaicen_solo · July 30, 2007, 12:35:27 PM

Funnily enough, there's a JTM60 at the studio too! I much prefer the range of tones I can get from that, I think the circuits are similar but the 60 has far more mids, so it's a bit easier to live with. I don't really like the clean channel as much, it's a bit dark.

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Building a pedal to add thickness/beef up to my tone