Figuring out an epoxied circuit?

[theblueark]

I think all R.G is trying to say is that we know it sounds good. We just don't know why.

We knew things fell to the ground. Newton showed us why and how we can use his laws in a repeatable and provable manner.

We (maybe) know what your device can do. But until anyone can prove scalar waves, it remains a theory.

[Jobet]

And heres your problem. THERE IS NO IOTA OF PROOF THAT SCALAR WAVES ARE NON-EXISTENT EITHER. And here we go with the conondrums that the lack of proof of existence of one thing is not evidence of its existence and etc etc etc we will never finish. Why,a concept so IDIOTICALLY simple as coinciding magnetic fields not being destroyed albeit just stopping, e.g. becoming standing waves or longitudinal waves is so far away from your paradigm, just because WIKIPEDIA SAID SO. What is so difficult to understand about that ? Standing Waves, as in you know, the energy that gets trapped in coaxial cables and waveguides...ARE PRETTY MUCH ACCEPTED IN COMMUNICATIONS THEORY. Here...wiki this .

You want some physics name-dropping ? Scalar coils were patented by Nikola Tesla himself. Yes his name has been bashed, maligned and used for less than noble causes, and yes he was one of the greatest physics thinkers of his day. Wikipedia unknown author, or Tesla that certified genius who invented , among other things, that kind of electricity powering your home now. Guess who Ill be putting my chips on.

Repeatable ? Testable ? Thats what Im doing right now. Im putting charts to what otherwise is already an auditorily approved product, both by me and a LOT of soft-launch customers.
And I cant see why you cant let it rest. We decided to put the HOW aside and concentrate on the WHAT.

I did not concoct any of it. I did not theorize any of it. I am an engineer, more concerned with application rather than theory. And so far everything Ive done confirms the principles they rest on. Oh my goodness, my coils effects were actually the result of cold solders, noise, repeated SEVEN HUNDRED TIMES in SEVEN HUNDRED UNITS with FIVE HUNDRED UNITS SOLD my goodness. You must remember, or know if you dont know yet, that this device ALREADY HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD IN THE PHILIPPINES, with a few units shipped worldwide already.

Gawd ! Why didn't I think about that ! Oxidized wire, solder and noise all coming together to make guitars and audio devices sound better. GOODNESS ! Why didn't I think of that ! Maybe it deserves a patent ! That's Occams Razor for you folks. It's easier to think that solder, oxidized wire, resonance and noise CONSISTENTLY makes audio devices sound better than oh whats that...standing waves.

I dont need this shyt, and neither do I need your approval on the matter. Lets drop this now. Our twines will NEVER meet.

[gijimmbo]

this is starting to make me laugh...

[gijimmbo]

there's no need to get upset.
if that's how you react to the minimal questions and probing that have been done here, then i can't imagine what will happen when you try to take it to the next level.  i.e. every physicist in the world scrutinizing and testing and trying to get answers out of you. 
that's going to be the REALLY funny part.

[MikeH]

True.  The academic scientific community really tears people a new one if there is ANY doubt or slight imperfection in their method.  I once watched in horror at a GSA (geologic society of america) conference as someone pointed out to a presenter that they had made a grave miscalculation and that their results were entirely flawed because of this one minor misstep.  The whole years research; *poof*- evaporated.  And then there was they guy who misspelled "Arctic" as "Artic" in his title slide.  He never had a chance.

[DougH]

The simple solution to a lot of these kinds of issues would be a little honesty in the the marketing-speak.

"I'm not really sure how this works but I really like how it sounds. A lot of other people do too. You might like it as well", for example.

This goes a lot farther with me than the 300,000th builder claiming he found that one tubescreamer tweak the other 299,999 missed, or the guy with the OD he claims is new & different that turns out to just be another mundane TS clone, or the one who claims his circuit was developed as part of discovering a portal to the next dimension, or etc, etc... If only the world were so simple... (sigh...)

[slacker]

there's no need to get upset.

Exactly. No one's questioning that it works, as you've should it appears to have a measurable affect on audio signals and people seem to like the sound, that's all that really matters.
The only thing that's being questioned is how it works, so far, as R.G. has consistently pointed out you haven't shown that it's effects are caused by anything other than proven scientific means.

[bluetubes]

I dont need this shyt, and neither do I need your approval on the matter. Lets drop this now. Our twines will NEVER meet.

Ummmm........does this mean your not sending R.G. a sample?   So, after all this, we don't get to find out how it really works.   

[Mark Hammer]

I gather it is the frustrated way of saying that they agree to disagree.

I'll just note that it is VERY hard to bust your ass on something, and be met by either skepticism or indifference.  I think Jobet has held up admirably well under the circumstances, but everyone has their breaking point, don't they.

[PerroGrande]

Well, this has certainly got contentious, hasn't it.

Jobet -- Take a deeeeep breath and count to 10 very slowly.  You're absolutely on the right track with the empirical testing that you're doing.  Theoretically, if I had a scalarizer and a copy of Cool Edit with a reasonably proficient sound card, I could conduct the exact same test and get the same results.  THAT is a repeatable, quantifiable test that can withstand peer review.   In other words, you're going in the right direction!

With a repeatable test that has been peer reviewed, you could put those charts up on your web page and show what your device does.    As DougH correctly pointed out, some clean empirical data trumps some of the crap that I see on "boutique" pedal sites and (especially) audiophile cable claims.   

Consider someone who is looking to spend money...  If they see:

"This pedal is made with Spring Green LED's -- cast from pure hobnobium plastic, oriented north, all catching the morning rays from the sun during the solstice.  This aligns the poobahbium crystal matrix inside the aural intensifier that is integrated with these LEDs during manufacture.  Low oxidation of the leads and solder joints is assured, as soldering takes place only during polar precession in a pure dogfartium environment...."  Only $1,499.00!  Order now!  (the pedal is a tube screamer...)

vs.

"Our device when connected produces additional overtones when connected.  The chart on the left shows a pure sine wave, while the chart on the right shows the same wave run through our device.   Here are some sound clips with A/B comparisons."  Only $25.00!  Order now!

I'm going to take a long hard look at the second product, after I catch my breath from laughter at the first explanation.


Now...

Have you proven that this device is harnessing/using scalar waves?  No. 
Has it been proven that it doesn't somehow use scalar waves?  No.
One of the above two statements might occur in step 385.   You are on step 3.

What you HAVE proven is that the device does *something* and isn't just snake oil.  That is very cool, indeed.  Many, MANY products don't survive to step 3 (or 2 for that matter), as they are exposed as frauds by testing (or they never undergo any serious testing and rely on the kind of marketing I spoofed above). 

I commend you for a willingness to look for controlled, repeatable testing methodologies.  It lends a lot of credibility to your product. 

[MikeH]

Many, MANY products don't survive to step 3 (or 2 for that matter), as they are exposed as frauds by testing (or they never undergo any serious testing and rely on the kind of marketing I spoofed above). 

Remember that goop that you put on ICs to make a pedal sound "warmer"? 

[frankclarke]

We have one person's word that it does anything. Peer review would be the start of the discussion.

[Jobet]

Okay guys.

Just to establish things, I'm writing this without having read any of the posts after mine. This is to ensure that I don't react like a powder keg again. This is going to be a white paper cum narrative so bear with me, and before I begin, I'll do the "whereas" statements first.

1. I've long realized that ego and emotion are natural enemies of science.
2. I guess I'm not at my best when I lack sleep.
3. Twain was wrong and Hegel was right. The twines do meet. This is a realization I got as I went deeper into thought about this matter.

Okay before I start, I'd like to say that you are a godsend Mr. Keen. Notwithstanding ruffled feathers on my part. And if I got touched off in my last post, I apologize. And along with that apology, I have to tell you straight off, your "cat whisker" diodes really did sound (and still does) like a smartass crack. It was construed as an insult to my intelligence, and please, don't assume any because you don't really know me. Notwithstanding, it was all good and very clarifying for me. It appears that this is not a case of pseudoscience, just misconstrued or miscommunicated science. Let me explain, and this will be long :

As I composed my last reply, I was going "what da f  is the big deal. Scalar waves, stationary waves, standing waves, they're all the same, why all the hoopla?" So to make my point about the wikipedia article, I went to wikipedia and pulled out the article on Standing waves, which I reckon, would be a lot more digestible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_waves

Yes, it was all there, what I was saying about coincident EM signals. This is the stuff of microwave engineering we were taught at school. But lo and behold an animated gif in the article made my mind make movies of moving, pulsing EM waves interfering with each other, adding up in some places and cancelling in some places, making smaller waves that oscillate faster. Yes, I can infer, those are the harmonics. Prior to this, I only knew the WHAT (scalar waves/ standing waves contain infinite harmonics) but I didn't know WHY. My weakness in thought process is that while I think in pictures, I noticed that they are static pictures and I failed to visualize two moving waves interfering with each other, superposing and hence creating the higher order frequencies

Against my better judgement, I spent the day experimenting away. I should be checking papers and computing grades, but what the hey. The very first thing I did was to rig a silicon diode across the loopback cable setup that I made for the scalarizer. Yup, there were harmonics. Lots of harmonics, with the near order ones exhibiting very high levels. I guess this is why people don't stick diodes in their guitars . Okay, set that aside and after some errands, mozied down to my workshop.

I pulled out an active duocore crystal scalarizer, which is composed of two scalar coils which sandwich one straight coil. The second coil is supposed to be powered by the lithium battery. Instead of that, I shorted the leads thus putting tshe 2nd scalar coil in parallel with the original configuration. Before I began I said "hah, this should confirm that the scalar coils are what make the harmonics".

I first listened to the passive crystal scalarizer to create a mental baseline, then replaced it with this new "passive, triple-coil" scalarizer. Yup, without a doubt it was brighter, richer and just to eliminate a little personal bias I had two friends listen to it as well. Confirmed. It was better than the ordinary passive scalarizer, to the point that it almost sounded "processed". This development actually challenges the active duocore line and might make it un-necessary. After all, guitarists are averse to putting batteries in their guitar.

But I didn't stop there. I was intrigued by the "magnetic bias" theory of RG. It sounded...well...sound. So I rigged a simple coil wound around a screw, and stuck the most powerful, small neodymium magnet I could find in the shop. Yup. It sounded good to. There was a subtle increase in brightness as I stuck the magnet in, confirming the addition of harmonics. Nice, and very natural sound too.

Next, I then rigged a single scalar coil around a screw again, installed that in my squier strat, and started playing. Boy, it was too harmonic-rich that it actually hurt my ears. And the funny thing...sticking the magnet and removing it did not seem to produce any noticeable difference.

Inferences/Conclusions :

1. The core material used is reacting with the M-field in the way that its permeability delays the arrival of the interfering signal from coinciding with other M-fields. Metalcore thus being the fastest, and it seems, hydrocore having the slowest core propagation time.

2. Jumping from #1, it would then appear that a larger unit, with larger cross-sectional diameter of the core material will result in an even longer delay in the arrival of the opposing and interfering M-field. This is a good subject of a new experiment.

3. The scalarizer, being a "blend" of a straight electromagnet, a scalar coil and a permanent magnet, actually operates in two actions : (a)the electromagnet and magnet working together to create a "magnetic bias" which will  skew the signal wave up or down with respect to ground thus producing asymmetry, which is rich in even-order harmonics AND (b)the scalar coil by itself which produces harmonics across the board. Thus, it appears that the harmonic order creation can be varied by tweaking the ratio of the straight coil vs. the scalar coil.

4. Never go to message boards when lacking in sleep and pumped up with caffeine.

As next steps, I have arranged for the use of a more extensive laboratory with stuff that I'll need such as inductance meters, sweep and function generators, and spectrum analyzers.

So laying that down, I just have to say "thank you" R.G. for putting me in a challenging situation. You are truly a godsend. Our little discourse has actually raised questions which I needed to answer, made me think more deeply and in "motion pictures", and overall seems to have catalyzed the development process. Just when I thought I had the product line down pat, looks like I'll be re-designing a few things.

With that, Merry Christmas folks. I'll read your posts later. After I've finished checking papers and computing grades.

Jobet

PS Two takers for scalarizer samples already, three more slots open for "peer review". By the way, given the development upstairs, I might be fabricating new units based on the new learnings, so it might arrive next year. Email me at jobet@bamfxaudio.com

[R.G.]

And along with that apology, I have to tell you straight off, your "cat whisker" diodes really did sound (and still does) like a smartass crack. It was construed as an insult to my intelligence, and please, don't assume any because you don't really know me.

If it sounded that way, I apologize as well. It was not meant as a shot at you, but rather a means of showing how wide the possibilities are. I meant, and still mean no offense to you.

[trendyironicname]

I like all of you guys.  I won't pretend to know anything when it comes to any of this.  I will say that I tip my hat to the inventing spirit jobet.  Engineering's feeling more and more like culinary school to me.  Tesla and Edison experimented and experimented.  I think I just regurgitate a proven solution.  If I need a cake, these ingredients work.  That type of thing. It seems like we're at the pinnacle of understanding but it's kind of stifling when you think you're at the top.  What else is there to create??  Sometimes, I just want to throw out everything, go to home depot, buy some pipe, wire, cement, screws, go to kroger's, buy some jello, flour, a mixing bowl, and see what I can rig up. Let other people figure out how it fits into our universe.  This is dumb.  My posts will probably become more and more incoherent as my vacation wears on and I just sit here thinking noncoherently with no coherents coherently coherenting. I like cheese. 

[Jobet]

And along with that apology, I have to tell you straight off, your "cat whisker" diodes really did sound (and still does) like a smartass crack. It was construed as an insult to my intelligence, and please, don't assume any because you don't really know me.

If it sounded that way, I apologize as well. It was not meant as a shot at you, but rather a means of showing how wide the possibilities are. I meant, and still mean no offense to you.

In two words, "most stimulating". Thank you so much.

[casey]

1. ok, i have a couple of points to make, as i usually just hang back and read....

a. he has offered to send his product out for free and pay for the postage...
     why doesn't someone take him up on it...like r.g. or mr. hammer... and try out the device for yourself.  don't see that anyone has anything to lose by   doing so.

b. if some of the forumites try it out and there is an audible difference, then who cares how it works....if it is bull, than no one has lost any money except for jobet who sent the product out to begin with.

i will say that i really dont care how it works....does it work?  i think that there was an excellent point brought up that it may be better for jobet to try and not explain how it works, but that it simply does work....offer a money back guarantee.... 

i get the feeling that he is not trying to mess people around and that he really believes in his product.  a lot can be said for that....  i would really like to hear other peoples findings from this forum. 

good luck...

[MikeH]

My posts will probably become more and more incoherent as my vacation wears on and I just sit here thinking noncoherently with no coherents coherently coherenting. I like cheese. 

The less sense matter and matter is more than sense

[R.G.]

a. he has offered to send his product out for free and pay for the postage...
     why doesn't someone take him up on it...like r.g. or mr. hammer... and try out the device for yourself.  don't see that anyone has anything to lose by doing so.

I won't take a free one because it's of no use to me to have one just to listen to, as I mentioned. If the device turns out to be a step forward, I will buy one. In that case I will have no hesitation at cutting it apart and finding out how it works. I would not feel so free if it was given to me to evaluate.

b. if some of the forumites try it out and there is an audible difference, then who cares how it works....if it is bull, than no one has lost any money except for jobet who sent the product out to begin with.

If it works, there is a positive audible difference, GREAT! Good sound is scarce, and there ought to be more of it. Like I said to Jobet, I think he's doing himself a disservice by how he describes it. But the proof is in the listening.

On the other hand, I do care how it works, just like I cared how the tube screamer worked, and the fuzz face, and the Vox wah, and ...

I'm kind of nuts about how everything works. There have to be a few of us around to keep the magic new goodies coming out, right? So if it's worthwhile, I'll find out how it works eventually.

i will say that i really dont care how it works....does it work?  i think that there was an excellent point brought up that it may be better for jobet to try and not explain how it works, but that it simply does work....offer a money back guarantee.... 

I suggested that he do that, I believe.

i get the feeling that he is not trying to mess people around and that he really believes in his product.  a lot can be said for that....  i would really like to hear other peoples findings from this forum. 

I don't think he's trying to pull a fraud, and does believe in what he makes. And we WILL find out how it works, eventually.

[Jobet]

Tsk. I guess poor inventors like myself are really in a no-win situation in places like this. if it doesnt work or works sub-par, it's snake-oil. If it does work, it gets reverse-engineered and eventually ripped off.

Anyway, since this seems to be the culture around here, and if I can't beat it I might as well join it. Maybe anyone here got the schematic of the Hermida Zen Drive ? Maybe I can manufacture a few hundred units and help him out with his backlog.

Tsk tsk.