Real McTube Vs TubeScreamer

[rogeryu_ph]

Diyers,
Hi, I read the review and article on McTube II and heard some MP3 sample. For some of you have already built this stuff or anyone who has used this can you compare it with TS808 with both using tube amplifier and non tube amplifier.

Thanks,
Roger

[Paul Marossy]

My opinion? Build the TS808 - it sounds better.

[Ben N]

Although I haven't built the RMT, FWIW I tend to agree with Paul. IMHO, 12ax7s by themselves don't make for great tone, and can't possibly duplicate real amp tone. Also IMHO, the best sounding tube amps get less distortion from the preamp stages and more from the phase inverter and power tubes. In a dirtbox, a dual triode is just one way to get your clipping happening, and not necessarily the best way. Probably a better sounding alternative would be Doug Hammond's Firefly with the dummy load mod (although it sounds nothing like a TS808).

[snoof]

I also have never cared for the sound of 12ax7's in a OD pedal.  Bleeaaack.  They are usually run at extremely low voltages that sound nothing like they do when used properly in a tube amp(like upwords of 200v). 

[rogeryu_ph]

Thanks for your guidance guys. I was preparing RMT for my next project but now it's last on my list if ever.
Can I ask you guys one more, what's the different in using Tubescreamer in non-tube amp and a tube amp? Is tubescreamer design was for tube amp only?

Thanks again,
Roger

[soulsonic]

What kind of sound are you looking for?

[MartyMart]

Can I ask you guys one more, what's the different in using Tubescreamer in non-tube amp and a tube amp? Is tubescreamer design was for tube amp only?

Roger

IMO and probably quite a few others opinion, TS with medium gain pushing a LOUD tube amp with some breakup, is one of the nicest
noises you'll ever get to hear ( amongst several other great noises of course )
Has to be VERY loud though, bedroom volume and tranny amps just dont quite cut it !
For pedals/preamps with 12AX7's, having the plate voltage NOT starved sounds pretty darn good, the EH torodial versions are great
as is the H&K Metal master/Cream Machine etc.
MM

[soulsonic]

Oh yeah, the Cream Machine! Whatever happened to those? They were a cool idea.

[brett]

Hi
I think MM has cleared up some confusion.  IMO the two circuits are barely comparable, but here goes...
IF you don't have a tube amp, AND you want the sound of a valve pre-amp (and the benefits that offers), then the RMT (or other 12AX7-based pedal) is the way to go.  BSIAB2 or other pedals will get you part the way there (but not really).
IF you can access a tube amp, MM is right - the TS is a great choice.  (It's worthwhile getting a nice tube amp.  Maybe second hand.  Even if you  gotta dance naked at hen's nights to pay it off.).

Basically, I had an amp with a solid state front end, and couldn't hear why people liked TSs so much.  Valve amp.... all that changed.  The TS is one of my favourite pedals now.  It's a marriage made in heaven.
cheers

[MartyMart]

Oh yeah, the Cream Machine! Whatever happened to those? They were a cool idea.

Discontinued quite a while ago, shame as they are REAL good units, bad marketing meant that no one really
"got" what they were about 'nor how good they were :-(
I have a Metal master, which took me two years to find and it sounds VERY good, pair of 12AX7's/gains /EQ and
a 4 watt tranny power amp.
The spkr sim output is also great ( redbox circuit ) and they are built like tanks !!

[9 volts]

I have an overload dean markley (a 12ax7 or 12at7). I've heard that people get great sounds out of this pedal, but so far I find it pretty ordinary and wooly. A three pot tone stack which you can tweat for hours to try and find find a decent sound. Looks rude though ha

[Paul Marossy]

I still think the TS sounds better than a 12AX7 type dist pedal. The only one that I really like is the Shaka Tube, but that is a "starved tube" kind of sound. I guess something like the Matchless Hot Box might sound better, I dunno. 

[Ben N]

Yeah, I'm with Paul on this, although I will grant that high voltage tube pedals working essentially as distortion preamps (like the RMT, Matchless, H&K, etc.) are generally superior to starved plate designs. (Exception: Shaka tube, which sounds great to me, although not really better than other med-hi gain distortons.) Having said that, I still don't love them (just as I don't much care for master-volume amps that get all their distortion from the preamp).

As for the proper use of a TS, let me echo what was said before: as a stand-alone overdrive (i.e. at unity gain), they suck, sounding thin and wimpy. The key is using them more as a distortion booster, where they add compression, eq and distortion WHILE beating up on the amp's front end. This works with tube amps, which respond well to that kind of abuse, unlike (most) SS. It also works with performance-size amps with substantial speakers (min 1x12" or 2x10"), and not with small practice amps that are already bass-challenged.  Many also feel that because of the signature mid-hump in the TS freq response, it is also best matched with amps that show something of a dip in the mids, like classic Fenders. 

However, my experience is that it also works reasonably well with Music Man hybrids, or at least the ones with the tube phase splitter and power amp. I assume this is because the MM preamps, running on +/-30v IIRC, have enough headrom to just pass the boost along to the tubes, and because the inherent squish in the TS lmits peaks enough to keep them from really pissing the ICs off. Either way, the combination sounds good, if just a tad harsher around the edges.

[bancika]

I still think the TS sounds better than a 12AX7 type dist pedal. The only one that I really like is the Shaka Tube, but that is a "starved tube" kind of sound. I guess something like the Matchless Hot Box might sound better, I dunno. 

yeah, hotbox is better. I have both (hotbox is slightly modded, TS has keeley mods) and hotbox is much better. I use TS to push it over the top though but on itself hotbox eats it alive.

[Paul Marossy]

Yeah, I've heard mostly positive stuff about the Hot Box.

[snoof]

I've used the Alembic (fb-2 maybe?) as a preamp/OD for guitar.  It actually sounds really good!!  It's essentially the front end of a Fender, using correct voltages.

[jlullo]

i used to have a matchless hotbox, and it didn't blow me away. 

granted i was way way younger, and i have different gear, but it always sounded harsh to me, no matter what i did

[bancika]

Original version sounded harsh to me too, that's why I modded it. Reduced second plate resistor to 100K, increased bypass caps to 1uF, changed tone stack to marshall style...so now it's just creamy

[Papa_lazerous]

+1 on the hotbox (yes I finally finished it Bran)

Long time no see on here Banicka! hope life in NY is treating you well my friend

[bancika]

Congrats man!
Where can I find pics, clips? Do you like it?
It's good here, work hard-play hard. I'm going to see Satriani this evening on manhattan
Cheers