Your suggestions for a DIY design that's sort of Hot Cake-ish?

[bipedal]

Seeking ideas about existing DIY designs that might capture the same general drive "flavor" as the Crowther Hot Cake.  (Not a "who's got the schematic for that pedal?" request, but an "if you like how that pedal sounds, you might like the  ______" request.)

I've searched the forum and came across some discussion about what may be happening under the hood of the HC, but little about recommendations for readily-available designs that could -- perhaps with some component tweaking -- get me in the same sonic ballpark (or a nearby audio zip code, at least).       I saw one suggestion of a modded Shaka HV, but I'd prefer to stay with a 9v design...

So many great designs are floating around out there on the layouts gallery (and elsewhere) -- recommend me one!

- Jay

[aron]

You can run the HV off of 9 volts. Now, off of the drain of the FET of the HV, stop the circuit right after that .01uF cap. Go to the Hot Fuzz professional schematic, grab everything from the 100K resistor before the last FETs drain. You might want to increase the 100K to 250K for the drive control of the Shaka HV. You might want to change the .01uF cap of the HV to a larger value like .1uF but I'm not sure.

This will give you a Shaka vibe plus a psuedo Hotcake tone control. I never tried it but it might be very, very cool!

Both schematics are in the Schematics link above.

[Dragonfly]

you might get close by taking a distortion +, removing the clipping diodes, and adding a big muff tone stack on the end (you'll have tp mess with the values...use duncans tone stack calculator).

just a guess...

[Dragonfly]

Something like this might work...the IC distorts just a bit making a light overdrive...the tone control is basically a single knob shelving EQ with a center frequency near 1khz...turing it will boost either the frequencies above 1khz, or below 1khz...nore or less....plug the values into duncans tone stack calculator, and experiment

hope this at least gives you a starting point.

[bipedal]

Thanks Aron and Dragonfly for your suggestions.  I'll play around with both of these ideas (dang it, this hobby is addictive).

Aron, just so I'm clear on your Shaka HV/Hot Fuzz circuit medley suggestion:

Shaka HV will work fine with standard 9v.  Your suggestion is to replace the part of the HV circuit after the .01 uF cap from the FET's drain with the Hot Fuzz's tone section that includes (reading the schematic roughly left to right) a 100K resistor, linking to a 10K resistor in parallel with a 50K tone pot.  Wiper from the tone pot is 'out' after the 0.47 uF cap, and I'd also include the 0.1 uF (with a 5k trim pot after it) and 0.022 uF caps to ground.  Did I capture the right parts of your suggestion?

Cheers,

- Jay

[markm]

I have a HotCake-ish type design in the Gallery but, it's down again so, ya can't get there from here. 

[ulysses]

thats not the hotcake.

that schem is a fake.

i dont like the hotcake. have you played one? the tl071 crackles like a mosquito caught in a zapper. uuhhh..

cheers
ulysses

[JHS]

BTW: on Matsumin's site is a layout for the switch-cake.

Over the years Paul modified the circuit a lot, but the the sound of all desings is nearly identical.
The overdriven sound is plain IC-overdrive-crap, but it's a great natural clean booster and sounds great if you use right equipment.

You can take the MXR-Microamp circuit and with some minor mods it sounds like the cake-clean (and with some more mods like the cake).

A DOD Juice Box sound similar, but less dynamic and with less volume boost, the Barber LTD has this clean sound too and a better overdriven tone. The old SHO sounds clean similar, though it's a lot noisier and produces those artificial "Mosfet"-overtones.
Jack Nagy's Blue Magic has a similar clean sound. Aron'S Shaka-Boost clean tone is as good as the cake-clean.

If you are into the cake's dist-sound, take a Big Muff and quit your crying but the Muff is more dynamic and organic sounding.

It was for sure a great sounding pedal in '77, with excellent vol-pot reaction but soundwise a simple HAO Rustbooster send the cake to oblivion.

All in all, start with a simple uA741-booster, for the cake's-clean sound

JHS

[markm]

The overdriven sound is plain IC-overdrive-crap, but it's a great natural clean booster and sounds great if you use right equipment.

I agree.
Never liked IC clipping myself either but, some really do.

[Ben N]

I couldn't see his pedal-board at the recent CH show, but I know Neil Finn has always used one (not so surprisingly, being that he & Crowther are both ex-Split Enz). I very much liked his chimey-crunchy lead tone, but it sounded more like he was just boosting the Vox along with using the bridge pickups on the Goldtop & Gretsch rather than getting any kind of distinctive pedal-OD tone. I think Andrew's idea may be right on the money for this application, especially with the mid-dip from the BMP tone control. How about using a dual with a recovery stage?

Edit: Just saw Marty's thread about using a recovery stage on a D+, citing this one: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=19538.0. OK, there we go! Maybe then also split the BMP into separate T & B controls, a la Jack's new note in the AMZ Lab Notebook, and not worry about the loss.

BTW, might a Crank with a BMP tone also work for this purpose?

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

thats not the hotcake.

that schem is a fake.

Hence why it's called a "Hotcake-like" schem.

I'm still going to take this one to the breadboard whether it's similar to the hotcake or not. I need some new circuits to tweak before my PT2399s arrive in the mail next week!

[aron]

>Did I capture the right parts of your suggestion?

Yes. try it and you might like it. The tone stack is very much like the Hot Cake. Despite what others have said, the HotCake doesn't sound like just another IC clipper. Not to me that is.

[Dragonfly]

thats not the hotcake.

that schem is a fake.

i dont like the hotcake. have you played one? the tl071 crackles like a mosquito caught in a zapper. uuhhh..

cheers
ulysses

i never said it WAS the Hotcake....just something that should be at least a good "starting point" ...thats why i labelled it as "possible hotcake-like overdrive" 

to quote myself when i posted the schemo ....

Something like this might work...the IC distorts just a bit making a light overdrive...the tone control is basically a single knob shelving EQ with a center frequency near 1khz...turing it will boost either the frequencies above 1khz, or below 1khz...nore or less....plug the values into duncans tone stack calculator, and experiment

hope this at least gives you a starting point.

[Dragonfly]

thats not the hotcake.

that schem is a fake.

Hence why it's called a "Hotcake-like" schem.

I'm still going to take this one to the breadboard whether it's similar to the hotcake or not. I need some new circuits to tweak before my PT2399s arrive in the mail next week!

definitely report back....im curious.... 

you may want to tweak the tone stack values...its a pretty stock shelving eq as it is shown...

[aron]

>i dont like the hotcake. have you played one? the tl071 crackles like a mosquito caught in a zapper. uuhhh..

That is so weird. I have played several HotCakes over the years and it doesn't sound at all like that. The tone stack cuts a lot of highs out too. What version are you playing? There are two distinct versions with regard to the chip.

[ulysses]

That is so weird. I have played several HotCakes over the years and it doesn't sound at all like that. The tone stack cuts a lot of highs out too. What version are you playing? There are two distinct versions with regard to the chip.

im playing the tl071 version with presence knob.

i have seen so many schems for it and they are all different. i A/B'd it with a real one and the sound was identical.

with the drive right down it doesnt crackle, turn it up a bit and when your guitar reaches a certain volume level the opamp starts to "crack" you have to turn the drive up nearly all the way so you dont get that clean/crackle/clean sound and just crackle sound.

it sounds exactly like the intro guitar to Oasis's "roll with it" - which in my opinion sounds terrible.

if you have a version that isnt opamp distortion then i'd be interested to see it.

cheers
ulysses

[aron]

Well if you compared to a real one, I guess that's it. As I said, I don't hear it - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[ulysses]

well i dont want to seem like prick to mr crawther by bagging his product, so i have uploaded a sample so everyone can judge for themselves. its in my gallery section under "misc audio". recorded with an NT1A - this is what the pedal sounds like, it is an accurate dipiction of the pedal there is no mic distortion. as i said, i have AB'd mine with a real one and its spot on the same. listen to the guitar intro on oasis's "roll with it", it eactly the same, but they eq'd out all the bass response (prob with the presense control).

some people love this pedal - it sounds ok with the gain right up and thrashing power chords out.

let me know what you think.

cheers
ulysses

[jonathan perez]

yucky.

[ulysses]

i never said it WAS the Hotcake....just something that should be at least a good "starting point" ...thats why i labelled it as "possible hotcake-like overdrive" 

to quote myself when i posted the schemo ....

thats cool bro. looking for a "pedal that sounds like the hotcake" is a euphemism for "can i have the hotcake schem please".. and being that we all talk in double dutch and pass shems that "may or may not be" the real thing, i thought i would clarify.

i must have built 5 fake hotcakes before getting the real one. just dont want to see it happen to someone else.

cheers
ulysses