Your suggestions for a DIY design that's sort of Hot Cake-ish?

[Dragonfly]

i never said it WAS the Hotcake....just something that should be at least a good "starting point" ...thats why i labelled it as "possible hotcake-like overdrive" 

to quote myself when i posted the schemo ....

thats cool bro. looking for a "pedal that sounds like the hotcake" is a euphemism for "can i have the hotcake schem please".. and being that we all talk in double dutch and pass shems that "may or may not be" the real thing, i thought i would clarify.

i must have built 5 fake hotcakes before getting the real one. just dont want to see it happen to someone else.

cheers
ulysses

[JHS]

The distortion from the cake is really smooth compared to other drives, considering that the cake has no clipping diodes.

Crowther uses some simple commen tricks to gain this effect.

The IC supply voltage is (on most Cakes) decreased to app. 8V. The cake has an asym. BIAS-divider with very sloppy filtering and a high-cut filter connected to the output. Furthermore the BIAS-R for the chip is connected to the junktion of the input-cap and the RF-protection R instead directly to the IC, this softens the distortion a lot and add compression to the sound, the RAT has a similar input layout.
The buffered bypass is another highlight and a very clever circuit design too.

The difference in sound between the 2006 version and the '77 is very, very small.

IMHO the best sounding Cake is the '77 with the uA741 chip, it has due to the 741 a bit more moise than other Cakes with 071 chip but the '77 is punchier and has a more fatter, natural sound with better dynamic response. The 2006 is due to the tone-pot a lot more flexible than the '77 but the tone-pot kills a bit of the headroom and punch.

Schems for both versions are in the www, just google a bit to find them ...

JHS

[ulysses]

hey jhs,

im surprised to hear you say the hotcake distortion is smooth???

have you listened to the sample i uploaded? would you describe that as smooth? it sounds the same on both my marshall and my mates vox ac30..

i AB'd mine with a circa '95 model with a 71 and it sounded identical to mine at the same pot points.

im interested if you have any audio demos of the 741 model in action.

cheers
ulysses

[MartyMart]

I've made an accurate clone using a 741 IC and it sounded "spot on" when A/B'd with a real one ( older version )
Personally I didn't like it with either of my amps or preamps, it seemed just too Fat and sounds like there's a
blanket over the amp when engaged ( real one too )
It's probably good for very bright Fender amps etc - definate Big Muff area, which I'm also not a huge fan of BTW

"Horses for courses"  !!
MM.

[JHS]

The distortion gets grittier when the tone pot is opened but when the tonepot is closed the cake is a relative smooth OD.
Not smooth compared to a TS-808 but way smoother than the harsh distortion a simple overdriven IC-boost will produce.
I would descripe it as overdrive with some grit on top, but it not that kind of rough distortion with overtones you get from a BOSS DS-1.

JHS

[alfafalfa]

Have a look here !

http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/mse_drive/imgs/9/b/9bec8e37.jpg


Alf

[markm]

Here's my shot at it;

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album76/CheeseCake_LAYOUT

[JHS]

Nice schem, and the trannie-version....

The '77 switch is easier to build and if you put the 4148 in it will sound the same ...
The 4148-diode adds topend-grit and some headroom (only in few Hot-Cakes mounted), if you leave it out you got the late switch-cake sound.

ZD3V3 and ZD3V0 are a good subs for the uncommen Zeners and the trannie hFE have more or less influence on the overall sound.
Not all 071 will work in this circuit, the TI TL071 does.

JHS

[aron]

Let's think about what happened here. The poster asked for a DIY design that sort of Hot Cake-ish.

What part of that question do you guys not understand? There's a reason he asked that. But several people completely ignored that request and posted something else. Are you guys going to try and answer his question or are you telling him to forget about the DIY creative path (where he might build and learn something new) and simply go and clone another pedal?

Because of that one question, a couple of new ideas were put forth. But with the post of the schematic, that kind of ends all discussion.

Aron

[markm]

Well, that's a good point actually.
I guess maybe it was the easier answer. 

[Dragonfly]

Let's think about what happened here. The poster asked for a DIY design that sort of Hot Cake-ish.

What part of that question do you guys not understand? There's a reason he asked that. But several people completely ignored that request and posted something else. Are you guys going to try and answer his question or are you telling him to forget about the DIY creative path (where he might build and learn something new) and simply go and clone another pedal?

Because of that one question, a couple of new ideas were put forth. But with the post of the schematic, that kind of ends all discussion.

Aron

Are you referring to the schematic that I posted ? It's definitely NOT a Hotcake, but something that may get a similar sound. Its a D+ with a modded BM tonestack.

Edit...never mind, I see it now...

[GREEN FUZ]

Excellent post, from someone in a good position to comment, about the age old issue of sink or swim, in the world of commerce. It addressed very well some of the recurrent issues that plague this site.

However, it also overlooked a key point of Aron`s post, which is that simply making these schematics available discourages a certain amount of creative thinking which may have been employed to work out how the circuit actually works and in doing so possibly come up with something original.

[Dragonfly]

However, it also overlooked a key point of Aron`s post, which is that simply making these schematics available discourages a certain amount of creative thinking which may have been employed to work out how the circuit actually works and in doing so possibly come up with something original.

While this is true, the person that posted the link to that Hotcake schematic can't be faulted either, as he was just trying to help. The Hotcake, to my knowledge, isn't in the small list of "protected" schematics (Teese, Z Vex except SHO, etc).

[GREEN FUZ]

However, it also overlooked a key point of Aron`s post, which is that simply making these schematics available discourages a certain amount of creative thinking which may have been employed to work out how the circuit actually works and in doing so possibly come up with something original.

While this is true, the person that posted the link to that Hotcake schematic can't be faulted either, as he was just trying to help. The Hotcake, to my knowledge, isn't in the small list of "protected" schematics (Teese, Z Vex except SHO, etc).

I agree. I`m not censuring that individual nor am I angling for deputy I.P police status. It would be much simpler to have no protected schematics. As things stand there are huge grey areas of misunderstanding and doubt which lead to a lot of ill feeling.

That said I am still more than happy to abide by the rules of the forum.

[Dragonfly]

I agree. I`m not censuring that individual nor am I angling for deputy I.P police status. It would be much simpler to have no protected schematics. As things stand there are huge grey areas of misunderstanding and doubt which lead to a lot of ill feeling.

That said I am still more than happy to abide by the rules of the forum.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that...I was just trying to save the person who posted the schemo a bit of grief, as he was just trying to help.

Also, with regards to "gray areas"...

IIRC, as long as it isnt Z Vex (other than the SHO) or Teese, then it's fair game....at least according to forum rules.

So, if we wanted to talk about this particular schematic, Aron prefers us to label it as "Boutique Hot Overdrive", or something like that....

This forum had an early agreement to not post schematics for ZVEX and Teese pedals (RMC, Real Mccoy Custom pedals). To this date, this is still the case with the SHO being the lone ZVEX exception. You can discuss any sort of pedal including ways that you might implement similar functionality yourself.

Yes you can post measurements/info about your pedals (you own them), however some manufacturers do not like their name being mentioned when these types of posts are made. For boutique manufacturers, please use "boutique" instead of mentioning the brand or model of the pedal you are describing. I have no control over schematics posted on other sites. Do not ask me to remove them because I can't.

IF you do post a boutique pedal for some reason, please rename and do not address it by any production name - in fact, just call it by whatever type of class of pedal it might be. Boutique fuzz etc.... In addition, please make sure you redraw any schematic using the DIY layout creator or other and do not use artwork or layout work from the  actual pedal.

[aron]

>With all respect, I don't understand what the problem is. If you want a hotcake, build a hotcake and mod it to taste. All this endless "walking on eggshells" and "dancing around the real question" is complete bull and total nonsense.

Brian are you going to get into this with me too?

The person asked for a hotcake-like schematic. What part don't you understand? We were on the road to him checking out a Shaka HV or other new schematic. This might have resulted in a cool new sounding pedal.

That's what I meant. I wasn't saying anything about the Hotcake.

[aron]

There's no gray are anymore. If I feel like I don't want something posted. I will delete it. I tried asking and all people did was complain.

I will decide. I will start by simplifying the before you post.... thread.

[ulysses]

Because of that one question, a couple of new ideas were put forth. But with the post of the schematic, that kind of ends all discussion.

cant this place be home brew and clone friendly?

"sort of hotcake like" is a euphemism. the man got what he wanted.. instead of something he didnt want.

cheers
ulysses

edit: aron, i know you are between a rock and a hard place mate. i guess you either have to pick one or the other. either way, dont worry, be happy. as my father always told me, aim to please most of the people most of the time and you'll be ok.

[GREEN FUZ]

Seeking ideas about existing DIY designs that might capture the same general drive "flavor" as the Crowther Hot Cake.  (Not a "who's got the schematic for that pedal?" request, but an "if you like how that pedal sounds, you might like the  ______" request.).....

....So many great designs are floating around out there on the layouts gallery (and elsewhere) -- recommend me one!

- Jay

[aron]

Bipedal, asked very specifically for something. I thought it was a great idea. Plus he mentioned the Shaka HV which can be a great pedal to mod.