Boutique effects = DIY projects

[soggybag]

It would depend on how much time it takes you to make a board. I think if I were building pedals to sell I would want to farm out as much of the work as possible. Buying in bulk probably gets a discount. If you paid $15 for a board and it took you an hour to make it and $3 for materials. You paid yourself $12 hour. That's just above minimum wage.

I have been assuming that MG guy has been buying boards made by JD.

If he has been making the boards himself from JD's designs there could be a copyright issue.

Though I don't think it's a bad thing. Think about it, anyone who opens one of these or reads these kinds of posts will know that the boards came from GGG. The light will go on, there's nothing special about these boxes. Heck I could make my own for less, and JD gets some business or at least some good reviews and traffic through his web site. Even people that want to buy an assembled box might buy one from JD instead. I hear he does top notch work, I bet they're more well made than MG.

The people that don't know the difference aren't GGG customers anyway. If they want a box that's described as a big muff or something but is really a BSIAB they would not be buying a PCB and doing it themselves. Maybe someone should write a review on harmony central...

Maybe they just like the graphics, in which case MG is their man.

[Dragonfly]

You paid yourself $12 hour. That's just above minimum wage.

I'll make no other comment other than minimum wage is $5.85 per hour...

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*Last Updated: 07/23/2007

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[Fuzzy-Train]

I'll make no other comment other than minimum wage is $5.85 per hour...

Damn that's low! Here in Ontario it's much more... but, alas it's still Canadian funds.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/factsheets/fs_wage.html (about half way down there's a chart for the wages)

[bumblebee]

My opinion is that the DIY layouts should be for DIY folks building for themselves and their friends; not would-be booteekers who intend to sell their wares for profit. If a person can't design his own layout for a product he plans to sell, then HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS SELLING PEDALS!!! I'm getting really fed up with these booteeker chumps who don't sh*t about anything. They can go to hell and kiss my ass because I've worked damn hard to learn how to do what I do, and there's nothing more insulting than asshole morons profiting from the hard work of guys like Mark. Those people are the true thieves in this business. Mark did all those layouts for the benefit of the community so people can have an easier time building stuff for fun - not as R&D work for some wannabe booteeker.

Maybe you could call this an argument about IP, but I think the real issue is business integrity...... and the issue of mercantile bourgeoisie living off the backs of the working man and the artists... but I'm not a big fan of Marx so I guess I shouldn't go there.

f*ckin A!

Its the same with everything, ya get these wana-bees that jump on the band wagon and sell there work as something special but as soon as ya check under the hood its generic and normal, nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever.

Take zvex for example, most people cant just make one of these boutique stompboxes so they buy it, it has something special about it to some people and they're prepared to pay for it. On the whole they're probably happy with it but then comes along MG selling "boo-teek" effects that look pretty damn good imo,a real gimmicky 90's skateboard ripoff theme goin on,they have a hyped up mojo sales pitch attached and a price to match so they must be good and "better" than a average production pedal................they even come across as a top-o-the-line boutique effect.

Then we find, excluding the enclosure, theres nothing special about them whatsoever, any kid with a soldering iron can make one of these and have it sound the same, not only that, there made with DIY hobbyist parts! no personally drawn circuit or anything!

If i buy boutique then i expect boutique,not some hobby kit i can slap together in half an hour for under $50

I see it as dishonest and this guy is using deception to rip people off IMHO and i can never agree with this sh*t!

If this is what boutique effects are then every weekend warrior with a soldering irons in business!





Edit:mistakes.

[markm]

Whoa!
....easy Hoss. 

[bumblebee]

Lol

[soggybag]

Oops, I stand corrected, minimum wage in CA is $7.50 right now (http://www.dir.ca.gov/Iwc/MinimumWageHistory.htm). Maybe it's not so bad getting $12 an hour for making PCBs...

I have to hand it to Mr Z Vex. Despite all of the flack he takes, he has come up new and original ideas. The Seq and Probe pedals are especially original.

Once you start to get an idea of what's inside many effects. You start to get surprised by how many Tube Screamer clones there are! Of course Tube Screamers sound pretty good.

[markm]

Hey, how 'bout thos Mets huh?  

[Plinky]

No doubt. Hasn't all this DIY .vs boutique been covered about 2 pages ago???

[soggybag]

I guess I was using this topic to explore the idea of DIY Stompboxes as a business. Maybe that should be it's own topic...

[Plinky]

You could do it, but if you wanted to make a living at it, be prepared for rough times. Just search "overdrive pedal" on Musician's Friend and it pulls up about 250 different distortion pedals, all pretty close to one another in comparison. That's a lot of competition to deal with, and that's not getting to most of the "boutique" market. The price is a little outrageous for some of these stompboxes IMO, which is usually why you don't see a lot of them in circulation. I never heard of MG effects until this thread.

[goosonique]

A boutique, from the French word for "shop," is a small shopping outlet, especially one that specialises in elite and fashionable items such as clothing and jewellery.

People love something special ... it can be just a cheap effect ...rehoused with couple of mods ...still boootteekk !

Its the attention given to achive consumers requirement !

Everybody had a diaper full of shit  ...

[markm]

Why do I get the feeling that many have responded to this thread without actually reading it?

[Plinky]

Why do I get the feeling that many have responded to this thread without actually reading it?

I've read it. Like I posted earlier, I feel everything was pointed out about 2 pages ago. If MG has a deal with JD, fine. If not, not fine. If someone's selling pcbs using your layouts without your consent, not fine. You having to deal with all the tech support after that sale, not fine. But when stuff like this is readily available on the internet, things can and often will happen. Just look at all the BS over the Mosfet boost. Fulltone has a pdf on his website stating his side of that argument.

It all boils down to morals, and that's a very diminishing quality these days, much like common sense.

I'll jump right out and say I've sold some pedals I've built using JD's pcbs, some of which I've etched myself. I even tell people it's stuff off the web that they can do themselves. Some people don't have the expertise or want to deal with the task of building for themselves, so they don't mind spending the money for a handbuilt pedal. What I don't do is sell them for the ungodly prices I've seen some of these boxes go for. I sell them for my time spent and parts and enough to keep my hobby going, especially in my current financial situation.

I strictly follow JD's licensing rules that he has posted on his website and I haven't had a problem. Once I even asked JD if I could give him credit for the pcb in the pedals I built (engrave his name inside the enclosure), and he said no thanks since it was my pedal. 

I even asked Monte Allums if I could do some of his pedal mods and pay him a royalty. He said he didn't need anyone else at the moment, so I haven't touched them.

The last thing I want to do is take away credit for someone else's hard work, but sometimes they don't want to be in the limelight. What you gonna do?

[markm]

Why do I get the feeling that many have responded to this thread without actually reading it?

I've read it. Like I posted earlier, I feel everything was pointed out about 2 pages ago. If MG has a deal with JD, fine. If not, not fine. If someone's selling pcbs using your layouts without your consent, not fine. You having to deal with all the tech support after that sale, not fine. But when stuff like this is readily available on the internet, things can and often will happen. Just look at all the BS over the Mosfet boost. Fulltone has a pdf on his website stating his side of that argument.

That was the MiniBooster, and Fuller used his own layout but, it doesn't really matter now. 
I understand what you mean about things being posted on the net and what will happen with them once they are posted.
However, it does seem a bit Double-Standardish that some feel as though building a circuit that isn't your own and selling it for profit
from a schem posted on this site is somehow different than etching a PCB of someone else's project that is posted here and selling it for profit.
I think it's the same Train just a different car. 

Where's a Cop when ya need one?!! 

[aron]

>Then we find, excluding the enclosure, theres nothing special about them whatsoever, any kid with a soldering iron can make one of these and have it sound the same, not only that, there made with DIY hobbyist parts! no personally drawn circuit or anything!

It's not about the parts. In the end all that matters is the sound and what it will go for in the marketplace. Any of us can make a pedal. Whether we have the ears and knowledge to add that final "aspect" that makes it sound good is another thing. Maybe that one value IS the difference between a good sounding circuit or not.

If people can make money on it and get what they ask for, then great.

[Plinky]

That was the MiniBooster, and Fuller used his own layout but, it doesn't really matter now. 

I stand corrected. I was close.

I understand what you mean about things being posted on the net and what will happen with them once they are posted.
However, it does seem a bit Double-Standardish that some feel as though building a circuit that isn't your own and selling it for profit
from a schem posted on this site is somehow different than etching a PCB of someone else's project that is posted here and selling it for profit.
I think it's the same Train just a different car. 

Where's a Cop when ya need one?!! 

They're exactly the same thing. If you're gonna sell pcbs for profit, I think you need to make your own layout (like GGG or TP). If you're etching a pcb for someone who doesn't have access to materials I can understand, but I wouldn't charge them full price for it, only materials (about 3 bucks I think) and I would have the layout designer's consent before hand. If someone wanted me to etch a pcb for them because they didn't know how, then I would direct them to Guitar Center to buy a new pedal since they probably don't have the skills to do the rest of the work.  

It's all about morals and upbringing. I saw it all the time in the automotive business. Salesmen and technicians wouldn't think twice about bending a customer over or taking a sales or repair idea from someone and taking credit for it.

[bumblebee]

$17 DIY hobby kits in a fancy box brings in $400?

I know what i'm gonna start doing!

Its immoral if anything!

[Plinky]

$17 DIY hobby kits in a fancy box brings in $400?

I know what i'm gonna start doing!

Its immoral if anything!

Sheesh!    I don't even come close to half of that price. Do people that sell them for that much actually get that? I can't see them selling many.

[soggybag]

I figure the following

PCB $3
Stomp Switch $6
Enclosure $5
Jacks $5 (In, out & power)
--------------------------------
Total $19 For wrapper

Another $30 for parts, PnP, paint and sandpaper for the box, wire etc.
-------------------------------
Total $50


You could get this down cheaper with volume. But remember there's also costs for shipping and whatnot.