Echo Base - a new PT2399 delay

[DavidM]

Excellent, Slacker. Will take some time to try these and then I will upload an updated schematic for the Dry Out mod I will end up using.
Will also have to try the Boss/Tails switch mod so as not to have the E.B. "catching in the background" whatever I am playing while in Bypass-Boss mode.

Aside from these mods, I am more than happy with my Echobase so far. I thought of implementing the second PT mod and while I could certainly do t (got a bunch of PTs in store) I am not really sure if i need that for my bass playing. The waveshape for vibrato looks cool but I don't think i will build that one either.

I might try a 3pdt switch for toggling between two sets of Time/Feedback so as to have a "slapback" preset setting and another setting. I checked one way to do this in which the time pots are in series but I was wondering whereas the position of the first pot will afect, even disengaged, the range of Pot 2.

I have built a Boss CE-2 clone and I was able to successfully implement a 3pdt for toggling between 2 rate knobs, each with its LED. So I would try something along those lines.


EDIT: Now I see your point in the cut breaking the connection from U3B into the 10K resistor. I think you are right in that there is no way of achieving it. I will try yor way then most surely.

Thanks forever

D

[jan007magic]

i'm not gonna build this.. yet.. ) not until all the great mod ideashave been posted.. haha!! i think the ending of thisthreadisthat.. we'll have a stompbox with... drum roll please...

4-5 FW, 5-6 toggle switches, 7-10 potentiometers, 4-5 LEDs, with an fx loop.. :DD

[DavidM]

i'm not gonna build this.. yet.. ) not until all the great mod ideashave been posted.. haha!! i think the ending of thisthreadisthat.. we'll have a stompbox with... drum roll please...

4-5 FW, 5-6 toggle switches, 7-10 potentiometers, 4-5 LEDs, with an fx loop.. :DD

Hi jan007,

The beauty of most DIY projects is precisely that they can be customized and tailored to death. Do not let that despair you.

Check http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43077 for many mods ideas.

Then figure out what you need or want to try and look in the thread. I know... huge. But doable.

BEst

David

[mr_deadmaxxx]

i know the echo base can work as a chorus pedal but i wonder if it works as great as compared to a "chorus" pedal itself. any ideas?

[slacker]

The chorus is a bit of a bonus feature, compared to a chorus pedal it's very limited. If you want a simple chorus pedal then you'd be better off building Rick's Little Angel.

[mr_deadmaxxx]

The chorus is a bit of a bonus feature, compared to a chorus pedal it's very limited. If you want a simple chorus pedal then you'd be better off building Rick's Little Angel.

i guess you're right.
OT.
the little angel VS this one "http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=92872.20"
which do you think should you build if you were in my shoes?and why?

thanks..

[slacker]

I haven't tried the other one, so I can't say. They're both easy enough to breadboard so try them both 

[DavidM]

Boss CE-2 for me, sirs. Built one and I love it.

EDIT: though it would not qualify as "simple", for sure...

[Mark Hammer]

Finally got my Echobase working, using the anonymous-etc layout.  Was driving me absolutely nuts.  None of the voltages were right and I couldn't get anything out of it.  Checked and rechecked the board for solder bridges, cracks, and misinstalled components.  Finally realized that the protection diode on the V+ input was in backwards so I flipped it around but that didn't do it, either.

Late last night, I tried connecting my battery snap to another point on the board, and when I unsoldered it and measured the voltage coming from the battery, realized that there was nothng on the board itself dragging V+ down to well under a volt, but that it was the damn battery snap itself doing it!  Swapped in another battery snap for the old one, and bingo-bango it worked perfectly.

(butt of hand against forehead) Stupid!  Stupid!  Stupid!!

Now to tailor it to taste.  I haven't browsed through the 62 screens here, so someone else might have already done it, but I have to say the manner in which those "boingy" modulated repeats have a sort of call-and-response feel to them, it really prompts one to want to use momentary switches for this beast, so you can insert the responses but continue to play without creating more of them.

[slacker]

I like the term boingy, don't think anyone's ever called it that before. Quick word of warning if you're running it off a battery, the modulation stops working when the battery is worn but still has enough juice to power the rest of the circuit. It's a bit of a design flaw that's caught a few people out.

You can add momentary bypass by putting a momentary SPST stomp in parallel with the normal bypass stomp, or just replace the standard one if you only want the momentary. You can also add a second stomp. momentary or latching to short out the 1uF cap in the LFO, this kills the modulation.

[Mark Hammer]

Great ideas!  Now I just have to figure out what I'm going to need to install it in to make use of those options.  I suspect this will demand a 1590BB, even though the board and controls will easily fit into the 125-B.  Adding the momentary will require placing the switches in a location where the box won't be flipped over when you step. 

[Mark Hammer]

Well, did the machining and legending last night, with just a few more wires to connect before relaunch.

I installed it into a 1590BB.  In retrospect, I should have installed it the "wide" way, rather than the narrow way, so that I could space the footswitches farther apart and make them easier targets, but I was too damn lazy to redo the wiring to permit spreading the 5 controls out along the rear skirt.  (I'll mod this message and post a picture later tonight)

In any event, the build has two large-diameter momentary buttons on either side of the stompswitch: one called "punch in" and the other called "lfo kill".  The punch-in is nothing more than a normally-open SPST momentary in parallel with the latching stompswitch, and essentially works in tandem with the tails switch.  So, leave the tails on, and the primary stompswitch off, and you can "punch in" with the momentary for a phrase and just lift your foot off and keep playing with the dying repeats. 

The lfo-kill works a little counterintuitively, but as a somethng-for-next-to-nothing feature, I can live with it.  If you want to play without the modulation, you need to hold the button down, and releasing it brings the modulation back in.  Personally, I would rather have it work in the opposite fashion, so that one could step on it for that momentarily wobblization, like John Scofield uses.  I suppose I could do that with a normally-closed switch, but it would necessitate other changes to the circuit, and maybe another toggle for enabling.

I have to say that the use of SPST electronic switching makes a number of very useful performance features possible.  Thanks!   

[deadastronaut]

@mark: great idea on the punch in momentary with tails.......cool..

[Mark Hammer]

Thanks.  While there are plenty of commercial delay pedals that offer a tails function, I'm not convinced they are all thought out in terms of usability for performance purposes.  For example, my Echo Park pedal has tails, but only if you bypass the pedal with a footpress that is harder than the footpress required for tap tempo.  And if you want another note or phrase to be repeated, you need to once again press hard to engage and press hard again to bypass and let the tails ring out.  Great pedal but it is most certainly NOT compatible with an easy phrase-wise use of the feature.  This latched+unlatched parallel arrangement allows for more seamless use of the tails feature by having a single foot motion represent "I want this", and lifting your foot represent "I don't want that".  As such, it integrates into the cognitive planning of one's playing more smoothly.  And heck, now I can play the solo at the end of "Don't Stop Believing" properly!    (hmmm, now I wonder if the EHX Freeze would permit the addition of such an arrangement?)

David Torn has some big momentary pushbuttons on one of his Koll guitars for instaneous injection of specific sounds.  I just adapted that to my scenario.  Personally, I think pretty much every ring modulator ought to come with a momentary punch-in feature....but that's another thread entirely.  

[Mark Hammer]

Here's what I did, and described earlier today:

[deadastronaut]

^ nice build..love those buttons.....they really suit it....

[Mark Hammer]

Thanks.  Like I say, I'm kind of regretting that I didn't install along the other box orientation so I could spread the buttons farther apart.  After I finished wiring it up in its new home last night, I tried it out, and while it is possible to use the momentaries in the manner described, you need to have good thoughtful aim.  The punch-in button works great, but that's an awfully close mini-toggle, there, that demands care. 

Next time I try something like this, it all goes in a different location.

Don't know how many of you are familiar with the units that the Electrix company out in Victoria used to make, like the Filter factory, Filter Queen, and Warp Factor.  They were desktop/rack effects targetting DJs, that had momentary switches for pushbutton effects.  Even if the poor locating of my own momentary buttons is not optimal for foot use, it still works nice for push-button use.

[slacker]

Looks great Mark.

I have to say that the use of SPST electronic switching makes a number of very useful performance features possible.  Thanks! 

Yeah it's a shame that we're so stuck on the idea that True bypass is best, there's all manner of interesting things that can be done with electronic and other buffered switching arrangements if you can sell it to the masses. For example, another thing you can do with this, that I don't think anyone has exploited, is have the stomp switch remote from the pedal. So you can put the pedal on top of your amp or in a rack and have the stomp on your pedalboard.
Or you can switch it using an electronic singnal, low is on, high is bypass. I know a few synth guys have experimented with this, having gates and things turn it on and off.

[Mark Hammer]

Great suggestions.  In truth, a great many time-based and modulation effects simply cancel the "non-dry" signal, and are quite amenable to remote switching.  Most of them use flip-flops, however, so the momentary - whether remote or on-board - provides latched switching, with no other alternative.  By use of a 4066, the EB provides non-latched switching as an option, which I find more flexible for doing the sorts of things I suggested.

[garcho]

Here's a pic of my completed Echo Base, with a few of the basic mods. I chose a waveshape switch to toggle between square and sine, since I wanted the option but doubted I would spend much time fiddling with that knob. I highly recommend the momentary foot switch ('punch'). Someday, I'll put it in an enclosure fit for such a fine circuit. Thanks Slacker!