Just built a Red Llama - should there be farty/fuzzy bass notes when chording?

[grolschie]

There seems to be high end crackle harsh-sounding distortion on the highs even when I lower the drive control.  Its very odd... any remedies?  I tried putting a cap after the 100k to ground, as well as raising values of coupling caps to bring more bass in, but even with a large value cap shunting a good chunk of highs to ground at the input, there's still that crackle... its absolutely weird and I cant get rid of it no matter how hard I try.

With some help from Bajaman I got the gain under control by inserting a 100k resistor into the first gain stage and also jumpered the 1K resistor out. The scope showed insane gain levels at 0 gain on the knob before doing this. Now its very low gain, but having reduced the gain now I also have crackle.

In Case of Difficulty:
Excessive current consumption (eats batteries):
Some 4049 draw more current than others. If you have a couple of 4049´s around, try plugging in different chips (turn off power while changing chips!!) and reading the current consumption with a meter. Choose the chip with the lowest consumption

[joelap]

I remedied a sort of crackle I was experiencing by placing a 47pf cap to ground directly after the 100k resistor (the first 100k in the circuit, the input resistor).  I thought it was just my breadboard acting up, maybe not.

[grolschie]

Cool. Thanks for that.  :-)

[widdly]

I've built a red llama and it sounds bluesy, insanely loud and a bit fuzzy at full gain.

I used this schematic...
http://gaussmarkov.net/layouts/redllama/redllama-schem.png

Also from memory, one of the perf layouts in gallery doesn't have the unused buffer inputs grounded.  Not sure whether that will make it sound bad.

[Pushtone]

Finished the Red Llama in perf. I used Gaussmarkov's PCB layout as a guide FWIW.





While still on the breadboard I made the decision to toggle between a 0.047 (bright) and a 0.33 (normal) output cap.

The other change was making the IC current limiting resistor a 120 ohm as opposed to the 1k.
Earlier in this thread I posted a link to a quote by Jack Orman about how changing this resistor changes the bandwidth of the CD4049.
It is a subtle difference but it seems to open up the midrange a little.

Finished last night so I don't have any solid opinions about the character of the fuzz/overdrive but it seems to work normaly without some of the things
other have complained about in this thread and the "Red Llama" thread that was posted about the same time as this one.



MARK HAMMER,

Interesting that the Forty Niner also uses the 10uf output cap. A nube like me might think the 4049 needs this kind of O/P cap.

Also interesting is that the Forty Niner looks to have the SWTC at the end before the O/P pot.

[Mark Hammer]

Interesting that the Forty Niner also uses the 10uf output cap. A nube like me might think the 4049 needs this kind of O/P cap.
Also interesting is that the Forty Niner looks to have the SWTC at the end before the O/P pot.

It can probably live with less than 10uf, but I used it because its "big enough", and there aren't THAT many standard values.
The basic 4049 circuit has so much output level that it is extremely comfortable giving up some of it for a passive tone control on the output.  I have no problem whatsoever punishing the input stage of my amp even after adding the SWTC.  Might be worth exploring that, or any of Jack Orman's recent clever extensions to the SWTC, at the output of a Llama.

[grolschie]

I have tried lowering the input cap value. It only makes the sound thinner, but bass still flubby. Best option for me was changing the 1k to the original 100ohm, plus inserting a 33k after the first gain stage to lower the overall gain.

The pedal is very bright. I added a 10k+ 2n2 cap ROG style filter at the output. Got rid of the brightness, but pedal sounded very ordinary afterwards, so removed that again. The brightness is quite cutting but nice all the same.

Swapped for another IC (same brand), no difference.

Pedal sounding better, but still a little flubby in the bass. Much better though. Thanks y'all. 

[grolschie]

I measured the voltage on the pins that are connected to the V+ and with the replacement IC and the 1k to 100ohm resistor swap they read 7.8v. Jumpering the resistor put it around 8.5ish. Before the mods it was 5.47v. I couldn't find the old IC to test that though - but it seems about right.

My build is not the holy grail of distortion pedals, but it makes a great boost to a distortion pedal or preamp distortion. Even with the gain up to farty, there is no fartiness when boosting a distortion for some reason.

[Pushtone]

with the replacement IC and the 1k to 100ohm resistor swap they read 7.8v. Jumpering the resistor put it around 8.5ish. Before the mods it was 5.47v.

Those are the exact same voltages I got when playing around with the 1k to 100 ohm supply current limiter. The 1k seems to have been chosen to limit current draw to make a battery last longer. I don't use batteries so I was into the subtle change in tone the 100 ohm made.

I've been playing mine all week and I like it very much but I never turn the gain more than halfway up. At max gain it sounds harsh and farty on its own.

I'm getting the same results as you when the Llama is used with other pedals.

Driving the AMZ MosFET booster into the Llama clean up all farty bass issues. Sounds very good at all gain settings.
Driving the Llama into the TS808 and BSIAB also makes for nice tight bass but there can be a lot of noise.

I'm using mine as a low gain overdrive because it sounds best that way.
Perhaps thats what MarkM's comments were all about?
Keeping the gain control low for best sound.

I'm glad you have come to a conclusion with your build.
I really like my build. I'm glad I put in a bright switch. With humbuckers the 0.047 output cap is working nicely.

[markm]

I mainly use mine for lower Gain (I'm a C&W Picker) but, even at full gain, I don't experience the same issues you fellas
have been mentioning which is what's really kinda confusing. 

[joelap]

I mainly use mine for lower Gain (I'm a C&W Picker) but, even at full gain, I don't experience the same issues you fellas
have been mentioning which is what's really kinda confusing. 

Well, I'm using an AC30, so anythign bright is instantly UBER bright!  And my pedal is giving off this weird almost harmonic buzz that I cant eliminate by any means.  I guess thats the nature of the beast for this topology.  But I'll say this: I'm not terribly thrilled by it alone into a clean amp... but if I give my vox a bit of volume and use this to goose it, it sounds AWESOME.

[grolschie]

I hear ya. My TS808'd Bad Monkey sounds better for ultra low gain stuff. The Llama has a real bite in the high end that's nice though.

[jimmy54]

I've just built my second Llama (the first working perfectly although I do agree with the excessive bass comments).  With the second one it's definitely not working right, I'm geting a very low volume output compared to my first build and also a lot less gain (almost like a clean boost instead of OD/fuzz).

I checked my IC voltages and I'm getting almost the exact voltages posted by grolschie in post #11, except for pins 14 and 15 which are giving me zero volts.  I've checked for solder bridges (none) and all my component values are correct.  Could there by a problem with the IC (I haven't got a second one to check).  What other component should I check/change?

By the way, there is no continuity between pins 14 & 15 and between either of these pins and ground

Cheers.

[grolschie]

I've just built my second Llama (the first working perfectly although I do agree with the excessive bass comments).  With the second one it's definitely not working right, I'm geting a very low volume output compared to my first build and also a lot less gain (almost like a clean boost instead of OD/fuzz).

Try swapping the 1k for a 100ohm, and inserting a 33k resistor after the first gain stage after the 0.033uf cap. If you used Dragonfly's vero layout, simply drill out a piece of track in the middle of the top track and insert resistor. A 25k trimpot would acutually be quite good, or a 50k or 100k if you want really low gain options. I also swapped the tant cap for a 0.047 greenie. Please let me know if you try any/all of these, and what results you have.

I checked my IC voltages and I'm getting almost the exact voltages posted by grolschie in post #11, except for pins 14 and 15 which are giving me zero volts.  I've checked for solder bridges (none) and all my component values are correct.  Could there by a problem with the IC (I haven't got a second one to check).  What other component should I check/change?

By the way, there is no continuity between pins 14 & 15 and between either of these pins and ground

Did you use IC sockets? Can you swap IC's between the two pedals? I found that I had problems with a solder bridge. I couldn't see it, but after scraping hard in between my vero tracks with a sharp flathead screw driver, the IC worked correctly. Feel free to post photos, someone might spot something. :-)

[jimmy54]

Thanks grolschie.  Just swapped in the IC from my last build and I'm getting good voltages for pins 14 & 15 now.  Must have been a duff 4049.

Cheers,

Jim

[grolschie]

Thanks grolschie.  Just swapped in the IC from my last build and I'm getting good voltages for pins 14 & 15 now.  Must have been a duff 4049.

Cheers,

Jim

Excellent. :-)

I have been told that the HCF4049UBE sounds better than the CD4049UBE in the Llama. I might try to order one.

[joelap]

I have been told that the HCF4049UBE sounds better than the CD4049UBE in the Llama. I might try to order one.

CRAP!  I knew I should have socketed it! 

[joelap]

Llama, anyone?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Way-Huge-Red-Llama_W0QQitemZ170147974964QQihZ007QQcategoryZ41419QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/WAY-HUGE-RED-LLAMA-SUPER-RARE-AMAZING-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ260159740311QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41416QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[micro]

Geez. This thread has my head swimming!
Oddly enough I had just picked up all the components to build this pedal a few days before this thread started.
Now I'm scared sh*tless to try it!

[markm]

Geez. This thread has my head swimming!
Oddly enough I had just picked up all the components to build this pedal a few days before this thread started.
Now I'm scared sh*tless to try it!

Nahhh.
It's a great build IMO.