I HATE PERF BOARD!

[Thepilot]

I like it from time to time- there's a mojo factor in it for me.

for simple circuits it's the cat's meow- no etching, no drilling.  quick and dirty and effective.

[hubble]

What specifically do you hate about it?

waste of solder, i hate using lead clippings to link stuff together, the little pads ALWAYS fall off.
i can think of more later....

[hubble]

well i have completed builds on perf before.  i didnt like it however.  i prefer vero, but i had good sized perf board laying around and decided to build a distortion+.  i understand the simplicity and i can do it fine,  i just hate it.  i agree though, it does take patience!

[Mark Hammer]

What specifically do you hate about it?

...the little pads ALWAYS fall off.

Perfboard does not always equal pad-per-hole.  "True" perfboard  has no little pads to fall off.  And yes, admittedly, the little pads on cheaper PPH boards often do NOT stand up well to heat and create a nuisance rather than a nice solid base to adhere a part to (not to mention a way for parts to short out).  Not all PPH boards are create equal, though, and a good PPH board is a pleasure to work with.

[Joe Kramer]

As The Hammer has correctly said, perfboard doesn't always equal pad-per-hole.  In my mind it never does.  Seems to me those pads would really inhibit your routing options and would always be in danger of shorting somewhere.  IMHO the pads are only a disadvantage and limitation, so I've never used the stuff.  Therein may lie part of your trouble.  As for waste of solder, I can't see that it takes any more to join a couple of neatly butted leads than to flow a PCB pad with a lead in it.  And as for joining things with lead clippings, well, most of the time you shouldn't have to use clippings at all.  Most leaded parts give you enough to work with without having to resort to clippings.  In any case, 22 ga buss wire is your next best option.

As for the patience thing, think of it this way: you either pay at the front door or you pay at the back door, but one way or another, you're going to have to pay.  Preparation and patience is paying at the front door.  Bashing your head against the wall troubleshooting a job you hurried through is paying at the back door.

Regards,
Joe

[R.G.]

The devil makes me say...

Perfboard is like some other substitutes. It's what you do when you can't do anything else. Preferably, you do it behind closed doors and wash your hands afterwards. 

Pad per hole is a major step forward on perf. True, the pads can short, but they can also be used to glue wire tracks down so they can't move around, and temporarily hold a lead until you can hook the rest of the net up to it.

Stripboard is a special case of pad per hole.

[soulsonic]

I did specifically say I only use unclad perfboard. I think that pad-per-hole stuff is a joke; it just makes a mess out of everything. Stripboard is a little better, but like I've said before, it wastes alot of space. Plain ol' perfboard is the way to go! I've even used eyelet board (with no eyelets installed) as perfboard in amps. Basically, I just need something to hold the parts in place. I know this doesn't work for everybody, but the results I've gotten by building this way have pleased me immensely.

[moro]

Perfboard does not always equal pad-per-hole.  "True" perfboard  has no little pads to fall off.

Hrm. I did not know this. I was referring to pad-per-hole when I said that I liked the stuff.

I just ordered some double sided perf board (two-pads-per-hole?) with copper plating inside the hole. The guy claims it's much more durable than regular pad-per-hole. We'll see how it goes.

[Joe Kramer]

This is easy. . . .

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/v/Analog+Delay+-+1.jpg.html

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/v/Analog+Delay+-+2.jpg.html

Regards,
Joe

[jrem]

perf board is good, I use the pad stuff these days, parts express has it in different sizes and it's cheap.  I've got the no-pad stuff, left overs from the late seventies.

I've done a couple of eyelet projects, it's ok for old school stuff, like tube amps.  Wire wrap is cool (no mention of it yet!), but the sockets aren't cheap.  It's FAA approved, though.  And pcb's are nice, but Eagle is a steep learning curve, and unless you're just hijacking layouts off the net (I did that for BSABII, soldering up now) then the art work takes considerable time.

I don't know what the beotch is about the pads falling off, though.  Just pull the lead to the next component and solder it down. It's not like every pad falls off, just one here and there.

[soulsonic]

This is easy. . . .

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/v/Analog+Delay+-+1.jpg.html

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/v/Analog+Delay+-+2.jpg.html

Regards,
Joe

That's what I'm talkin' about! Nice work!

[Joe Kramer]

That's what I'm talkin' about! Nice work!

Hey thanks, and right back at ya--I can practically taste the mojo oozing from that Shizzle build!

[Mark Hammer]

I like the PPH boards that I got from Smallbear.  Top notch quality and a pleasure to work with.  I picked up some in Toronto last week that seem like even higher quality, if that is possible.  These are plate-through PPH, which is what I gather Moro was referring to; essentially a matrix of little teeny rivets.  I imagine these will hold up nicely under thermal duress without coming apart.

Why is PPH "better" than the unpadded perfboard that Joe finds so easy to work with (and the results show!)?  I suspect this is largely because the holes in perfboard are generally of a one-size-fits-all form, which means they are often a bit larger than most components require.  That can leave them wobbly and subject to fracture.  It can especially leave wire leads to switches and pots subject to wobble-induced fracture.  The pads provide a way for the components to be held every bit as rigidly as they would be on a PCB where the holes were just the right size for every part.  Of course, little floating donuts around the base of components does no one any favours, so the virtues of PPH are only as evident as the soldering/building skills of the builder.  The "beotch" happens when you suddenly realize that the 15k resistor you thought you installed (brown-green-orange) is really a 75k resistor (purple-green-orange) in bad lighting and needs to be replaced in exactly the same tight spot.

[petemoore]

  drill holes through a dowel rod, build the circuit in/around that, wrap it in some insulation material, stuff it in a place shaped for a tube, connect it, pad it in place. not recommended for circuits which benefit by having a ground plane.
  take two pieces of hard cardboard, bend them in an L shape, glue them together so they hold shape better, drill through holes and build the circuit in that.
  Sometimes I'll have a little corner and space for a DPDT/knob, and use a non-conventional board.
  I used to print the schematic, paste it on a bookcover...drill, connect and go...ends up kinda large though.

[aron]

>i hate using lead clippings to link stuff together

You don't use clippings to link things together. You link as you go along. Not after clipping. Anyway, use some other method.

[stopstopsmile]

ok i prefer the idea of perf.  I like really really simple little circuits that are built like menatone used to. 

I really dont quite understand how it works though.  I understand with a PCB you have the circuit and the traces and pathway is created by the print.

How do you take a layout and then make it on a perf board.  How are you getting the pathway and the connection of the components?

sorry this is a newbie question. 

[jrem]

add point:  the wire wrap wire avail at rat shack is teflon coted and great for perf board solder side jumpers, but you'll need the wire stripper that comes with the wire wrapping tool.

[soulsonic]

ok i prefer the idea of perf.  I like really really simple little circuits that are built like menatone used to. 

I really dont quite understand how it works though.  I understand with a PCB you have the circuit and the traces and pathway is created by the print.

How do you take a layout and then make it on a perf board.  How are you getting the pathway and the connection of the components?

sorry this is a newbie question. 

You use the leads from the components themselves mostly - just attach them together - maybe use some small wire here and there if you need to. Look at the links in Joe Kramer's post - that's how a correctly done perfboard build looks. And look at the pics I have of my Shizzle build that are up in my gallery or in my build blog - that is a hybrid of perfboard and terminal strips.

[8mileshigh]

Perf is  a piece of cake for tiny circuits, you're up and running in about a half hour.  However, my attempt to emulate Dragonfly's hard wiring project was a ROYAL pain in the ass.  This took me 10 times longer than using traditional sheiled flexable wire and it still looks like ass.  It's clear to me now that I have no concept on how a pedal should be wired, but I'll get there one day.  The good news is that it works    and it's plently solid.  I say give perf a stab from a schematic, it's the best way to learn. See photo below.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

I dunno, i guess i like perfing