Why no Pic's of real Univibe guts around (here)?

[RedHouse]

(I posted this over in the members only area but thought it might be better here)

A Question and a Challenge ...(why no Pic's of real Univibe guts)


The Question:
As I was reading the recent posts about the different "vibe" flavor's, and their quirks, and while looking one post that had some nice pic's it suddenly dawned on me...

Why has no one posted pic's of a REAL Univibe?

Where are the pic's? how can we tell for sure that 'ol Shin Ei schematic floating around IS in fact the real deal?

Besides the 'ol "someone said", the friend-of-a-friend, and the recurring guru article references detailing the authors "all the real unives I worked on" stories, I've still yet to see any actual gut shots of a real original Univibe.
(there are pic's floating around of the RM vibe but that isn't the real deal).

The Challenge:
SOMEBODY WHO HAS ONE   ...PLEASE TAKE SOME DECENT GUT-SHOT PIC'S AND POST THEM!
and/or
ANYONE WHO HAS DECENT GUT-SHOT PIC'S    ....PLEASE POST THEM!


Thank you, I'll be over here if anybody needs me

BTW, a few months ago one sold on ebay, I contacted the seller who said he/she had pics and would send them to me, but never did. (sigh)


ALSO: doing some Googl'in I did find this pic on the web, it's a great shot of the layout but no solder-side shot to enable confirming a/the schematic.

http://filters.muziq.be/model/univox/univibe

[Celadine]

Any effect that was a part of Mr. Hendrix's sound will have its utter existense scrutinized to the last detail.  If there were any pedal whose design is hidden from us, it wouldn't be the univibe.   

[R.G.]

I guess I have a question and a challenge.

I made and posted layout for what came to be named the Neovibe to the internet before there was a world wide web. The net as it's known today did not exist, only email, file transfers and usenet.

Since that time I have repaired a number of real ones (uh, I guess that makes me one of those "all the real univibes I've worked on" guys). They matched the schemo of the neovibe except where I changed the power supply to a three terminal regulator and in the fact that there are two variants, one with a trimmer for lamp bias and one with only a fixed resistor. The only reason I didn't do gut shots of real vibes is that (a) I didn't have a digital camera back when I did those repairs. In fact, pretty much no one did. It is possible that I did some photos, as I have a dim memory of tracing out the schemo of one of the repairs, but I think I ditched it as it was the same as the schemo I'd worked from and my board was smaller and better suited to DIY. I'd have to dig into deep archives to find them.

My question is - what would gut shots tell you that you don't already know? Do you think this is being hidden after over a dozen years of DIYers making clones based on my layouts? Sometimes things aren't on the net because they're too mundane.

My challenge is - tell me what a set of gut shots would tell you that you don't already know.

[msurdin]

I have been intrested in building one of these. A real clone. I played the voodoo lab micro vibe and it got very close, but I like how the original has the vibrato, and chorus.
I also want to be able to have a foot controler.
I know david gilmour has a toggle to choose between 2 different speed controls (fast and slow) but can also use a foot controler..

I really want to do this, but i suck at schematics...

thanks

[george]

[Why has no one posted pic's of a REAL Univibe?

because the originals are too expensive, that's why people here build clones - this is after all a DIY stompbox site

It's not like the electrons will behave any differently if the PCB layout's different or something.

Anyway that if that's a real Univibe it can't be any good ... the resistors aren't carbon comp and there's TWO!!!! ceramic capacitors on there ... definitely no mojo in that circut my friend ;-)

The most significant component (if any) is maybe the lightbulb ... can you take the lightshield off to take a photo without trashing a vintage effect?? Probably not

[R.G.]

I have been intrested in building one of these. A real clone. I played the voodoo lab micro vibe and it got very close, but I like how the original has the vibrato, and chorus. I also want to be able to have a foot controler. I know david gilmour has a toggle to choose between 2 different speed controls (fast and slow) but can also use a foot controler..

The Neovibe is a real clone.

The differences between the Neovibe and the original univbe are

(a) the Neovibe has a regulated signal supply voltage instead of a resistor/capacitor filtered supply, so it has less AC ripple.
(b) the Neovibe parts list recommends parts which are actually available instead of the original parts which are not generally available, and
(c) the Neovibe leaves it up to you to put together a foot controller.

The circuitry is all there, exactly per the original. You can even do the original non-bypass; there are pads on the board to do that if you really like a "bypass" that isn't.

[RedHouse]

I guess I have a question and a challenge.

I made and posted layout for what came to be named the Neovibe to the internet before there was a world wide web. The net as it's known today did not exist, only email, file transfers and usenet.

Since that time I have repaired a number of real ones (uh, I guess that makes me one of those "all the real univibes I've worked on" guys). They matched the schemo of the neovibe except where I changed the power supply to a three terminal regulator and in the fact that there are two variants, one with a trimmer for lamp bias and one with only a fixed resistor. The only reason I didn't do gut shots of real vibes is that (a) I didn't have a digital camera back when I did those repairs. In fact, pretty much no one did. It is possible that I did some photos, as I have a dim memory of tracing out the schemo of one of the repairs, but I think I ditched it as it was the same as the schemo I'd worked from and my board was smaller and better suited to DIY. I'd have to dig into deep archives to find them.

My question is - what would gut shots tell you that you don't already know? Do you think this is being hidden after over a dozen years of DIYers making clones based on my layouts? Sometimes things aren't on the net because they're too mundane.

My challenge is - tell me what a set of gut shots would tell you that you don't already know.

Hey now, back of the que for you, lets take one challenge at a time 

So you might have pic's, you don't remember what happened to them, fair enough. So your answer is simply NO.

It was the intent of my post to stir folks who might have pics into posting them in this community (digital or scanned photo's) but alas you have none, thanks for taking the challenge...next contestant please?

But wait, all this other stuff is kinda weird. Like take it easy 'ol boy no harm intended, I'm an old dog too, around way back then and building and mod'ing Amps, effects and mixing boards. I kind'a miss my old copy of Telix terminal emulation software, but don't miss staring at my 12" yellow monochrome screen until my eyes watered (I just love these new LCD displays). Oh and what about waiting for the mail transport to bring in the (yesterdays) email messages remember that? when email was delivered once or twice a day on the backbone?) the "Net" was around, it was the WWW that was the johnny-come-lately back in the early 90's which really allowed the creation and common access to resources.
(WWW is not "The Net", WWW is on the net)

Fortunately this thread is not (supposed to be) about the WWW or how old we are or did the Chicken come before the Egg etc, it's trying to be about finding and posting gut shots of real univibe's which we don't see much specially around a place like this where guru's and idiots alike hang out. (read that as vast range of folks).

RG, I understand you built the Neovibe around the original Shin Ei circuit, there is no question, funny thing is, pretty much so do we all (unless we build a easyvibe) my post isn't calling you out on your credibility. Just as with many, many, other effects that we do have gut-shot pic's of, many folks including myself would love to see for themselves, call it interest, call it curious, whatever.

I have never had the pleasure of having a real one come across my bench, in fact I have never seen or touched a real one in person, only in pics. You can call it a personality flaw of mine (or too much work in test labs) but I'm just not the kind of guy who can simply take one's word for it, call me Curious George (the monkey) but just I like to see things for myself, verify things etc. plus sometimes we tend see things others don't, we all have different views, this is mine.

so....To answer your challenge:

My question is - what would gut shots tell you that you don't already know? Do you think this is being hidden after over a dozen years of DIYers making clones based on my layouts? Sometimes things aren't on the net because they're too mundane.

• would tell me how the unit was built, layed out, wired and assembled 
• give me better feel for what the components were like, how the board was assembled, the "vibe" of the Vibe if you will 
• verify the schematic that goes around, (ok then, verify your neovibe)

My challenge is - tell me what a set of gut shots would tell you that you don't already know.

Hmm, dunno, ...havent seen any yet!

Sorry just kidding, but you're kind of giving off this air that you should be the last-word on the whole thing.

Don't get me wrong I like your work, and you have done a lot of it, and shared a lot of it, and I have great respect for your opinions, but it's not all about you, or Neovibe's, or who was here first. I just thought it would be nice to try and get real univbe gut shots here for the rest of us who havent seen one. I should have worded my challenge differently.

BTW: there are other univibe clones around 'ol chap. just shoot-me-now but I happen to like my univibe clones better, no offense intended.

Here's a couple pic's of my stuff, the regular boards and my pride-n-joy ... the Vibe-Baby

some unfinished boards
http://users.isp.com/brad_anne/guitar/Boards.jpg

an unfinished Vibe-Baby
http://users.isp.com/brad_anne/guitar/Vibe-Baby.jpg

JC Maillet has already done a "Cry-Vibe" which I believe is the same work Moosapotamus based his on, that work came to mind when a customer of mine inspired me with a question one day, he already had a Dunlop Uni-Vibe with the foot controller (which is a crybaby wah shell) and was commissioning me to build him a custom 'Vibe asked me one day "why can't the whole thing be fit into a wah shell?, why do I have to have 2 pedals on my board for one effect"  which sent me back to the drawing board and voila! Vibe-Baby. I sent JC one as a thank's y'all, he liked my work and keeps in touch now and then.
(and BTW I tried to contact RG back then, I wanted to send him one also but he never responded to my emails so I dropped the idea)

My shop works on a commission basis, I don't build-n-sell pedals, I do build, and sell but I get commisioned to build Amps, Pedals, Boards etc. More like a hot-rod shop, Classic Amplification is my business, the people I do work for (my customers)  know what they want and I make sure they know they can get it cheaper elsewhere so it weeds-out the GC and mail-order folks, together we work out some idea's that will fit their need, I build the gear and get paid, it's all word-of-mouth recomendations, I don't advertise. (I work a full time job and this as a sideline)

[markm]

I don't know, I trust R.G.'s word, He's the sharpest I have ever had the pleasure to work with.
In layman's term, He knows his sh*t! 
I do understand though, sometimes seeing the real deal is inspiring.

[RedHouse]

I don't know, I trust R.G.'s word, He's the sharpest I have ever had the pleasure to work with.
In layman's term, He knows his sh*t! 
I do understand though, sometimes seeing the real deal is inspiring.

Again, there is no question about RG's "word", he's great, we all love him, and he's not the ony "word" around.

[Pedal love]

You can find any gut shots of these on ebay. I have personally seen 6 on ebay in the past year. You, want to come here for you're one stop shopping for guts shots. This is a forum to learn and share diy period! Thats all that is implied here. Thats all this is.

[RedHouse]

You can find any gut shots of these on ebay. I have personally seen 6 on ebay in the past year. You, want to come here for you're one stop shopping for guts shots. This is a forum to learn and share diy period! Thats all that is implied here. Thats all this is.

Actually I have been looking on the bay and I've seen exactly zero gut shots of the univibes auctioned since I started looking (about 5 years now) the only pic's posted are of the unit and the pedal and the manual sometimes.

Wow I'm glad you posted this, did you really see 6 this year?, jeez I certainly missed them. How about posting a link or two (or six)?.  Many times when one does come up on the bay, I send the seller a message asking if they have any inside pictures and if they'd be willing to send them to me, so far nobody has had any.

In fact this morning's search didn't come up with any either, no there were like 2 Dunlops (only 1 was a UV-1) and 3 Fulltones and 1 RM Voodoo vibe, out of those six only the one RM had a gut shot (which I'm not interested in anyway).

No Pedal love, I really don't come here for one-stop shopping and you know, you are absoulutely right this is "a forum to learn and share diy" ......so here's an idea: lets share some univibe gut shot's eh? 

But seriously, why the angst? did I offend you?

[markm]

I don't know, I trust R.G.'s word, He's the sharpest I have ever had the pleasure to work with.
In layman's term, He knows his sh*t! 
I do understand though, sometimes seeing the real deal is inspiring.

Again, there is no question about RG's "word", he's great, we all love him, and he's not the ony "word" around.

True.

[RedHouse]

This is getting way too negative, my appologies for offending ANYONE this thread was not meant to offend so call me a poor communicator or call me a whatever but lets just get this thread back on a constructive course.

(NOTE: I would just edit the original post if I could, but I cant as the "Modify" button is long gone, so moving forward....)

Let me re-cast the throw-down and delete the questionable question.


The New Improved Challenge:
CAN SOMEBODY WHO HAS ONE, PLEASE TAKE SOME DECENT GUT-SHOT PIC'S AND POST THEM
and/or
ANYONE WHO HAS DECENT GUT-SHOT PIC'S, CAN YOU PLEASE POST THEM.
and
I ENCOURAGE SOLDER SIDE SHOTS AS WELL

I've posted the 1st one, it's not my own but it IS a decent gut-shot:


Anyone else?

[Sir H C]

I don't have a vibe but I do have a Resley Tone and Vibrachorus that I can take some gut shots of.  These are slightly different than the Univibe.

[John Lyons]

Let's be friends folks, no need for bad vibes. Red Houses post seemed friendly and honest enough...
I'm sure RG knows his stuff but no one questioned that did they?

The vibe baby looks nice Red house! One question for you. Which LDRs do you use? I used some "magic" ones from JC's stock and they made a huge difference in my build. I'd assume fast and wide response (resistance) is the best way to go?


John

[MetalGod]

Redhouse, that's a really nice layout you got there - care to post the layout and pcb artwork? (I've got a Crybaby shell here that would be perfect for a 'vibe).

btw, here's an original Univibe on ebay right now.  The guy actually lives about 45 minutes away from me, small world eh?.  Drop the guy an email asking for gut shots... http://cgi.ebay.com/Shin-Ei-Univibe-60s-origional-hendrix-uni-vibe-phaser_W0QQitemZ230172743795QQihZ013QQcategoryZ22669QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

[RedHouse]

Redhouse, that's a really nice layout you got there - care to post the layout and pcb artwork? (I've got a Crybaby shell here that would be perfect for a 'vibe).

btw, here's an original Univibe on ebay right now.  The guy actually lives about 45 minutes away from me, small world eh?.  Drop the guy an email asking for gut shots... http://cgi.ebay.com/Shin-Ei-Univibe-60s-origional-hendrix-uni-vibe-phaser_W0QQitemZ230172743795QQihZ013QQcategoryZ22669QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

Thanks John, definately no need for bad Vibes 

I think the ones in that pic are the 'ol ones from Mouser (Mouser part# 338-54C679 I believe) seems everyone was using them until they bailed on their LDR sales.

I too have a set of 'ol heavy metal LDR's JC sent me, but I must admit I haven't yet to put them into my personal Vibe (I'm bogarting them for myself) so I can't say either way. I have been having good results with wide range high resitance LDR's but they must be fast. I made a jig and it tests LDR's by applying light and timing the response change.
(ok it applies light, then I time the readings off my meter)

It seems like LDR's are all-over-the-place when it comes to the speed with which they change. We like to blame the range when a Vibe doesn't sound right but I think the speed of change seems to be an equal value issue. For instance one set I had showed a nice big 50k-5M range ...BUT... didn't see the the 5M until like 10 seconds of light applied. It's something I've not really heared others discuss before but I think I'm on the right track. Fast-n-Wide is the key to LDR's IMHO. It seems important to see the changes in the 100k-to-2M region relatively quickly (much less than a second)

ElectronicGoldmine has (or had) some opto-couplers for like 99¢ which were LED driven. I got some a couple years ago and they were very fast, so I cut them in half and took the LDR part and used that in one the Vibes. The part number was G15396 and they were very fast. I just rolled them under the edge of an Xacto knife until I cut through the plastic housing.

I have also used their part number G15177 with quite good results (2/99¢) I just love buying and using (good) surplus stuff. Since Mouser bailed on the 54C679 which I didn't think were that great anyway, I found that one can still get great LDR's like the Silonex NSL-5152, NSL-5542 and the more expensive NSL-4140 from Allied (see the website)


Funny thing is, this guy just added some gut shot pic's 2 day's ago, somehow I didn't catch it in my search queries (hmmm) maybe this is one that Pedal love was referencing in his last post.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120163299053&ssPageName=ADME:B:DBS:US:1123

Hey MetalGod, much thanks for asking, currently I have some other work I can post but for the time being I must keep the Vibe-Baby to myself, it's a money-maker and I know you'll understand as this forum has blessed others with current money-makers.  I have built (and sold) 14 of them so far, it's a very limited-use design so I feel that in the future I will drop this in the public domain so please hang tight.

It took me like 3 months of working on it, at night, after work, slowly moving around the components (in Photoshop) making room for the screws and holes that a wah-shell has until I could get it to fit without modification to the wah-shell. My only reget is that I used a VOX shell when I fit the first one and when I was doing a Dunlop I noticed it would have been good to move the components around so the power pug would have been useful (Doh!)

In case you're wondering about power, all my stuff uses a daughter-board arrangement, there is no need for an on-board power supply like RG has in his Neovibe. I like to be modular (in case I make any changes) so I run a 18-24v power supply into the effect, and inside the effect there is a board which has a bridge rectifier and a couple 15v regulators to give me twin 15v supplies, one for the audio path, one for the LFO. The bridge is there just in case the user plugs in a power-pack of the wrong polarity. 

I've changed the Vibe-Baby since the first ones, it now uses the pedal for controlling Depth rather than Speed. Most users felt that the speed was best pre-set by pot's (or switches) and so I changed the pedal to use the built-in rack-n-pinion-pot as a Depth control. Most users feel that the speed is to finicky to set via the pedal in a live environment, more importantly they feel it's too hard to get it back to the same setting after a change. I have to say I now agree after jamming with one.

[John Lyons]

Thanks for those parts numbers Brad. I'll look into those.

John

[RedHouse]

I don't have a vibe but I do have a Resley Tone and Vibrachorus that I can take some gut shots of.  These are slightly different than the Univibe.

That would be GREAT! please do, and thanks-a-million.