Delay - which project?

[Arfman]

If some of you could give me your recommendations for a good delay project? Analog or digital, open to both though I'm leaning towards analog. Also where the project file is...

I've certainly located several out there, just would like some comments from some of you who may have actually built them.

Thanks guys...

[soggybag]

Rebote 2 is a great project. Sounds good, the parts are easily obtainable. It's also not overly complex and has room for experimentation.

There is a Rebote 2.5, which I haven't built, but from what I have heard here it sounds like there is not much difference.

[markm]

The Rebote 2.5 is a good one as well as the AD3208. 

[Mark Hammer]

I ask this every time this same question comes up:  What do you need the delay to do for you?  The digital chips can sound perfectly acceptable and are inexpensive and easy to work with, BUT cascading them to produce more delay is a little trickier than with analog BBDs.

Some folks only want a slapback sound, some want to be able to play an entire phrase and have it repeat.  What satisfies the one goal doesn't necessarily satisfy the other.  What do you want it to do?

[markm]

Mark H. has a VERY good point here, I use mine for slap and little else. 

[soggybag]

Good point. The Rebote and other PT2399 delays provide about half a second of good clean delay. Beyond that the delay gets grainy and low fi, but might usable to about 1 sec.

I've never tried cascading PT2399s. The idea crossed my mind. I figure you'd need to set the delay time on both chips simultaneously. Though you might be able to put a diode on the delay pin of each chip and then connect them to ground through the same pot.

[Arfman]

I ask this every time this same question comes up:  What do you need the delay to do for you?  The digital chips can sound perfectly acceptable and are inexpensive and easy to work with, BUT cascading them to produce more delay is a little trickier than with analog BBDs.

Some folks only want a slapback sound, some want to be able to play an entire phrase and have it repeat.  What satisfies the one goal doesn't necessarily satisfy the other.  What do you want it to do?

Versatility is desirable, but would use  longer delays much more often than slap. Probably would want something that would do a more than 1/2 second, 1 second would be cool but not essential.

Very good point...thanks...

[slacker]

I've never tried cascading PT2399s. The idea crossed my mind. I figure you'd need to set the delay time on both chips simultaneously. Though you might be able to put a diode on the delay pin of each chip and then connect them to ground through the same pot.

Not to go flying too far off topic but I've tried cascading them, it works but you need a lot of filtering to keep the noise down to a reaonable level. I'm not sure it's worth doing to try and get much longer delay times as the results weren't much better than you can get with one chip with a lot of filtering. What you could probably do is get a cleaner 500ms delay by setting each chip to 250ms.
I didn't try varying the delay times simultaneously, I just used fixed delays to see if it could be done. If you wanted to vary both of them at once you could use LDRs controlled by one LED or use transistors as VCRs or use a dual pot.

[jlullo]

i've built the rebote 2.5 and the rebote 2.... i'd DEFINTELY go with the 2!

[soggybag]

i've built the rebote 2.5 and the rebote 2.... i'd DEFINTELY go with the 2!

I seem to remember people not being so impressed with the Rebote 2.5. The Rebote 2 sounds great in my opinion. I loaned it to a friend of mine. Who is one of those, I use only analog stuff, guys. he came back with it and said it sounded pretty good, he thought it had a very analog sound.

[Arfman]

Thanks everyone...Rebote 2.0 it is...parts ordered!

[jlullo]

you're going to love it!

if i had to compare.... the rebote 2.0 is to the 2.5 as Owen Wilson is to Luke Wilson

[igor12]

I gotta disagree with you all. I think the PT80 is the way to go. It can go to about 1 sec (thanks to compandor) and do slapback. I think it also responds better to dynamics in your playing.

[jlullo]

i myself haven't done the pt80, but i've heard good things about it as well... the rebote does slapback, though...

aren't they fairly similar circuits?

[soggybag]

I gotta disagree with you all. I think the PT80 is the way to go. It can go to about 1 sec (thanks to compandor) and do slapback. I think it also responds better to dynamics in your playing.

The PT-80 is pretty good I've built this one also. The only thing I have against the PT-80 is power supply and NE-570. It wants a power supply larger than 9V. I run mine off a 9V wall wart. But the project as shown lists an 18v supply. The NE-570 is about $6. The whole project is larger and more complex.

Also, I'm not sure, but I do not think the compander allows for a longer delays. I think it just makes for better overall sound quality. I thought it compresses the signal going into the PT2399 and expands it coming out. The idea is that PT2399 is running on 5v so the head room is low or subject to clipping if your input and output is working on 9V.

[Arfman]

18 volts isn't a problem, my power supply is home grown and isolated. I included a couple 18 volt regulated outputs...Thanks, I'll look this up!

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Rebote 2.0 has less drastic treble cut for the repeats than the 2.5... Creatively, they both have their virtues, I have both in my pedalboard... (doh!)   

Fp

[Arfman]

Rebote 2.0 has less drastic treble cut for the repeats than the 2.5... Creatively, they both have their virtues, I have both in my pedalboard... (doh!)   

Fp

A man after my own heart...I've got three tone benders, three fuzzfaces, two univibes and two rangemasters laying around...

It's a disease...it, it all started with one little rangemaster board and I though I could stop anytime I want...now I'm completely out of control...

[rackham]

Sorry to hijack but...

Are there any projects out there that offer much longer delay times than that?

[Mark Hammer]

Nothing  you'd want to tackle as a "hobby".  The commercial delay chips tend to run out of decent delay time after about 800msec.  You can probably stretch them out a little longer by clocking them more slowly, but you probably wouldn't want to.

Analog delays can be created with delay times that are longer than 1 sec but one needs additional circuitry to buffer the clock lines going to that many BBDs.

Quite frankly, given that the ideal delay is supposed to be "invisible" (i.e., the tone is personality-free), there is not a whole lot to be gained by beating your brains against the challenge of an ultra-long delay project, other than snazzy options.  Given what is commercially available from things in the $100 +/-50 range, both in the way of options and delay times, I'm not sure it is worth it to aim at the 800msec+ range unless every nickel saved is precious.  But then what are you pissing them away on guitar gadgets for if that's the case.

I hope that doesn't sound too sarcastic.  When Danelectro makes $15 pedals that can sound great, you have to ask whether the pleasure of building and the result achieved are seriously worth it.  Often, given the time and money involved, it IS worth it.  For other things, not so much.  For what it takes to jump the hurdle to the big leagues in delay time, I think we're in the latter category until someone comes out with a chip you can stick a USB flashdrive into and score yourself minutes of looping time.