I am curious, electrical engineers...

[stopstopsmile]

I am curious.  If I was trained in electrical engineering would I be able to understand circuits like pedal circuits?  would I be able to read the schematics and put the circuits together, design and build PCB's?  Or is it completely different? And something that I would have to learn but may have a quicker time learning?

[rikkards]

I am curious.  If I was trained in electrical engineering would I be able to understand circuits like pedal circuits?  would I be able to read the schematics and put the circuits together, design and build PCB's?  Or is it completely different? And something that I would have to learn but may have a quicker time learning?

I think if you got an EE degree you would be able to do a lot more than make pedals...

[stopstopsmile]

I hear ya.  I would think so too.  My dads friend is an EE and he offered to help me figure out some of things I am trying to figure out like layouts, drawing a schematic, putting together PCB boards, etc.  I am just curious if this is something he would understand or would he look at it all like its wrong and foreign.  I mean the reason alot of these pedals work is because they are wrong, they are creating distortion by means that are probably scarey to someone who understands ee.  I could be wrong, just my intuition.

[R.G.]

I'm an EE.

Your dad would understand the schemos etc, even if he didn't think they were technically very good.

The circuits in pedals are a technological backwater. Except for the DSP stuff, the circuits in pedals were obsolete decades ago. Modern EE practice has moved on to other things, much more advanced stuff.  Asking a practicing EE about a pedal is a lot like asking a transportation engineer what to feed your horses. He may know, but his profession is way past that.

[markm]

I was born an EE.
Since then though, I've forgotten it all! 

[Sir H C]

Would you understand pedals?  If that is the facet of EE that you cared about.  It is now such a broad field, that with an undergrad degree you can get by with minimal analog and digital circuit experiences (I know by interviewing fresh-outs with b.s. and even m.s. degrees in EE).  From there, it there are some basic circuits that everyone uses and some oddball ones (the oscillator in the Univibe for instance) that you will not easily get from a program. 

With the degree, you will understand schematics but how to make a PCB, probably not.  You will see the conection from a schematic to the PCB, but you will probably not learn to make a PCB. 

Overall, an EE degree will get you the foundation to go much further than a pedal, or at least be able to look at 99% of the pedals and be able to understand them with no problems.

And there are a lot of positions still needed for analog design engineers, I should know, we always had trouble finding good ones (that is ones that did it in their undergrad or grad programs).

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

It very much depends on what the EE course was like. It is possible - at least at some universities - to do an "EE" course that contains very little analog design (certainly no PRACTICAL analog design) and major in communications engineering, DSP processing etc.
Having said that, the point about a EE degree - or any other degree - is that it should equip you to be able to continue studying by yourself - and I would say, anyone who does well in an EE degree should be able to eventually understand ANY analog circuit.
But, it's a pretty big ask, to expect someone to look straight at an unfamiliar circuit & do a full analysis in their head. Especially FX!! because, a lot of FX circuits aren't "standard" stuff you will see in EE texts. They might have very unorthodox feedback loops and components may be used outside their design range.

Edited, to add the disclaimer that I'm certainly not an EE. I'm a political scientist, so far as qualifications go. I've employed some EEs though...

[the_random_hero]

I'm doing EE now, and I must say it's 90% of stuff you won't need to get into pedal designing/building. Luckily my course has a huge focus (next year though ) on amplifiers and op-amps, apart from that it's mainly 3 phase, electrical installations and motor design.
Now if I could only work out a way to implement SCADA in pedal design.....

[Thepilot]

I'm pursuing an EE degree at the moment.

If building pedals is all you want to do do not even think about putting yourself through this kind of hell. 

It certainly does help to build an understanding of what works and why.  People like RG are amazing to me- being able to put vast technical knowledge with creativity is very, very cool.

The course of study is rigorous, but certainly interesting [most of the time].  Not sure it would be worth it if you weren't after a career in EE.

[12milluz]

This reminds, me, I've always been wondering if Aron is an electrical engineer. Anyone?

[RedHouse]

IMHO it's a bit overkill for this kind of stuff but if you have the time (and can afford it) more power to ya.

Personally I never got a university degree in electronics but have been a bench-tech since I got out of high school in the early 70's. I have to say it periodically comes back to bite me as I tend to forget things I've read over the years. Formal training/learning is specially beneficial when you have a teacher to ask/answer questions that inevitably arise in electronics.

If you're a chronic DIY learner (can read and understand from books) these two books are a must have:

Electronic Devices And Circuits by Theodore F. Bogart jr.
ISBN 0-13-393760-7

it's very good at teaching you the basics ond how to do the math yourself.

"Handbook Of Electronic Time-savers And Shortcuts by Bob Middleton
ISBN 0-13-079559-3

which is a VERY good book, more of a hands-on bench-tech approach to testing and troubleshooting.

I'd also recommend any of Don Lancaster's cookbooks, specifically his "Active Filter Cookbook".



Just don't forget, if you do go for an EE, try not to wave it in front of everybody's nose "listen to me, I'm an EE" as if nobody else knows a thing about fixing/repairing/mod'ing devices, a common condition that often occurs just after they hand over the paper. Be smart, and be cool.   

{EDIT} I'm reflecting on cafeteria and group meeting discussions I've had over the years, the new grad (and sometimes the old guy) wanting to establish himself as the master (Alpha?) in the group eventually plays the EE card when things don't go as they see it. (might happen here on occasion, dunno)

[R.G.]

Gosh Brad, that was subtle.

Just for completeness, it's also useful to remember that someone who does have the formal training *sometimes* does know what they're talking about.

This is particularly irritating to someone who is invested in the "the pros are always wrong" mythos, particularly when things don't go as they see it. Might happen here sometimes.

Nah, probably not.

[Dave_B]

I've read a lot of your stuff R.G.  You don't come across that way to me.  I know what Brad means, though.  I've had four encounters in my life with people who started a sentence with, "Well, I have an engineering background and..."  It was annoying enough that I remember how many times it's happened.      I'm usually not accused of having a chip on my shoulder but it really came across as, "You're a dumbass who would never think of this, but I'll try to explain it to you." 

None of the conversations were about electronics, by the way.  One guy was talking about leveling the decorative bricks around his yard.   

[R.G.]

You're right. The thing is, there are always people who will say "Well I really know and you couldn't possibly know..." either by statement or implication. Some of my former in-laws were that way, so I've seen this up close and personal. It doesn't have to be about EE or engineering, or any subject in particular. There are horses posteriors in engineering just like there are in scuba diving, railroading, and corporate finance.

I have covered for EEs who couldn't design an ice cream cone. Worked for a few of them. That was fun - the guy whose butt you saved telling you that you were OK but not great on your next performance review. 8-)

Getting an EE degree to design pedals is futile, as was pointed out. The style and depth of EE used in analog pedal design was relevant 35-40 years ago. That's why most EEs today don't know this stuff - the schools don't even teach it any more. They didn't teach much of it when I got my degree. In the late 50s to early 60s would have been the right time to get this kind of education.

You can pick up an education in analog electronics today, it's just harder. Start with "The Art of Electronics". Then, like getting to Carnegie Hall, practice, practice, practice.

[~arph]

Yes (as an EE) it will help you understand it more, but it is like looking at a movie from the 50's (well.. before the COLOUR tv was invented)
six years ago they didn't teach me about transistors.. it was ohms law.. then digital circuits and OTA's (opamps)
Then again it also depends on the specific direction you take in EE (let's not have a debate about the differences between US and European schooling)
I took an informatics (i'm a software engineer now.. (why!?)) but I could have chosen for high power/energy or microelectronics /chip desing and something else which was probably so boring no one remembered.

[bonkdav]

i am a freshman and i am intending to finish school with a major in EE.  I frequent this site and many others related to stompboxes 2-6 times a day.  I think with the knowledge i will be gaining from here and school i will be able to hopefully make a career in stompboxes and musical equipment. i have been and probably always will be a fan of analog, tube amps, and germanium, but theres new technology being invented every day there are going to be more and more digital options to be explored. i think there are still tons of new circuits to be explored and created or mashed together with old ones.  I am also very into playing music so i will be designing from a musical standpoint too.  I know i will have to do a ton of research on my own on all the older stuff thats been written and i probably wont use a lot of my knowledge gained at school but at least i can use that as a fall back (who uses and EE degree as a fallback plan!?!?!) because i know it will be hard to make a living of stompboxes.  I just needed to say that because from some of the posts it sounded like an electrical engineer from nowadays might as well not even bother with stompboxes but maybe im just young and dumb for reading it wrong or maybe im just young and dumb for thinking this plan may work. basically im saying the reason there isnt a tap tempo tremolo (one that has a setable rate per tap 1,1.5, 2,3,4,5 oscillations per beat etc) is because havent finished school yet.  but now someones probably gonna either design one or show me one thats already in existence and crush my dreams. oh well.  I just want to carry on the stompbox flame and have fun while doing it.

You dont need to be an EE to clone pedals and sell them on ebay, but it would sure help a lot if you wanted to push the envelope when it comes to pedal building/designing.

Also thanks a lot to everyone on the forum who has ever helped me out on here directly or indirectly and a big thanks to aron for making such a wonderful site.

[Hanglow]

My older brother is an EE, he has designed  a number of ethernet over video cable converters . I got full on respect from him due to the "old school" nature of what I was doing. Then I saw some of his designs on his laptop and realised just how simple these pedals are

[joelap]

I'm an EE student, finishing up my senior year.  I got an A in Circuits 1, Circuits 2, Electronics 1, and Electronics 2 and I solely blame this place and my hobbies for that.  you have no idea how much understanding how it applies to audio/stompbox use helps you in the classroom.  Honestly, in Electronics 1 (at least at my school's curriculum) it was all about biasing, current mirrors, basically learning the building blocks.  Electornics 2 was where you put them to use, (multistage amps, filters, etc.)

I'm almost finished with my degree, and I still feel like there's mountains I still don't comprehend.  Like reading R.G.'s site, its a wakeup call to me reminding me I've still got a long way to go, and its motivating.  Unfortunately, the only other analog course I'm going to have (if I choose it) is Analog VLSI, or analog chip design.  I'm taking my electives in communication engineering as well as embedded systems.  I have to wait until my first semester of grad school to take VHDL.  Coincidentally, I had been looking for good books on analog design electronics... pretty happy I stumbled onto this thread!

There is still a demand for analog design engineers?

[Steben]

Well, it's quite funny to experience the opposite. In my professional life as engineer-architect, I usually hear those things ( You don't know a thing because I just know better...I work in the industry a long time before you were born son...) from contractors on the building site/yard. But when the final curtain closes, most don't know a thing aside from masonry and obsolete techniques. Especially the recent energy, ventilation and insulation revolutions just passed them by as it seems. Ah well, sometimes it's frustrating, sometimes not.

[Dave_B]

You're right. The thing is, there are always people who will say "Well I really know and you couldn't possibly know..." either by statement or implication.

My favorite one is, "I'm not sure what your background is, but..."