Germanium Fuzz... Not a fuzz face

[msurdin]

I hear it has both germanium and sillicone...

Maybe we should go the big muff way? This is not the first time i have heard that....
I dont know if it has a mids loss like the muff though...

[soulsonic]

The mid loss in a Big Muff is mostly from the tone control. There's always different ways that can be done. Jack Orman has a bunch of articles about playing with the Big Muff tone control to get it to do different things, including not have the scooped mids.

I've never used any other pedals with my Shizzle fuzz - I don't play that way. I have used it was a low impedance EMG pickup and it sounded fine. I would never bother with putting a compressor before it because of the added noise and the fact that a fuzz usually compresses a signal to death anyway. I can't tell you if it will give you the sound you're after because I'm not sure what that is.

[hellwood]

Maybe we should go the big muff way? This is not the first time i have heard that....

oh well, so much for a fuzz...a distortion pedal will work too though.

[msurdin]

But we can get it to be more fuzzy and less muffy wile getting the whole germanium sound, quiet and smooth?

[hellwood]

But we can get it to be more fuzzy and less muffy wile getting the whole germanium sound, quiet and smooth?

based on my experience, i would say more buzzy and fizzy than fuzzy. they are great for fast rhythms (PUNK) and palm muting but relatively thin on the solos.  i usually pull out my various big muffs when the thick fuzz pedals are soaking up too much of my rhythm's clarity.

[msurdin]

Here are 2 clips of the g2 paired with a compressor and delay
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8831778375475153669
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6800028055597035226&q=pink+floyd+live+8+money&total=26&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I'm not sure what you would say about the sound of the pedal, or how we should go to make something to get that overall sound (minus compressor and delay)
The one thing i hate about a lot of muffs is they are filled with noise, and hiss. I really want to try and get that to as much as a minimum as i can...
Do you think that sound is more fuzzy or fizzy and buzzy?

thanks

[msurdin]

Maybe it is more of the fizzy and buzzy... i looked at his site and he has a dedicated pedal that is a "fuzz" ....
but he also has his muff type pedal...

[hellwood]

Here are 2 clips of the g2 paired with a compressor and delay
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8831778375475153669
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6800028055597035226&q=pink+floyd+live+8+money&total=26&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I'm not sure what you would say about the sound of the pedal, or how we should go to make something to get that overall sound (minus compressor and delay)
The one thing i hate about a lot of muffs is they are filled with noise, and hiss. I really want to try and get that to as much as a minimum as i can...
Do you think that sound is more fuzzy or fizzy and buzzy?

thanks

Here are 2 clips of the g2 paired with a compressor and delay
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8831778375475153669
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6800028055597035226&q=pink+floyd+live+8+money&total=26&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I'm not sure what you would say about the sound of the pedal, or how we should go to make something to get that overall sound (minus compressor and delay)
The one thing i hate about a lot of muffs is they are filled with noise, and hiss. I really want to try and get that to as much as a minimum as i can...
Do you think that sound is more fuzzy or fizzy and buzzy?

thanks[/size][/size][/size]

nothing fizzy about those tracks. in fact, they sound really full and dark for a maple neck.
this is my ge fuzzface w/ rosewood for comparison http://www.theharshcarpets.com/my_FF.wav

[msurdin]

So what way shall we go?
Fuzz way, or work it with the whole muff idea?

[soulsonic]

That David Gilmour sound seems more like a good amp tone than anything a pedal is doing.

[hellwood]

That David Gilmour sound seems more like a good amp tone than anything a pedal is doing.

i couldnt have agreed more!

[msurdin]

Well i do have the same 4x12 and soon the same amp head, so i wanted to work on getting that fuzz/ distortion built... i just dont know what would make sence.... from what I have found what pete said about that unit makes it sound like a muff people tell me, but the germanium clip sound like it gets a close tone...

[soulsonic]

What kind of amp is it? I'm not real familiar with his current gear.... I know he used to use Hiwatts.
It sounds like he's using the pedal more to boost and get some extra sustain  than to actually do all the distortion itself.
I know he used to use a regular old Muff, so maybe you can start there and tweak it until it does what you want.

[brett]

germanium PNP negative ground? nobody will tell you thats a good idea.

That doesn't equate to my experience.  As long as the coupling cap is large and good quality, there should be no issues (it's just a separation of DC gound from part of the signal ground).

In my opinion, you can get 99% of that nice, "germanium" sound (and 0% of the problems) with an RM axis fuzz.  But you need to use older silicon transistors, or devices with low hFE and low-hFE-related attributes (try power devices like TIPs (recommended by Gus, no less) and BD139s, and others with hFE around 100-150).  Many people who build them make positive comments about the results.
have fun

[msurdin]

He still is using a hiwatt, dr103.
On his custom cornish board he has his muff on there and the "G2". Here is a page about that.. http://petecornish.co.uk/SAEG-2.html
From watching a dvd of the past tour the settings on the g2 during money and the other clip i put up the gain was at 100%.

[soulsonic]

Everything about the description of on the Cornish page suggests that it's a variation of the Big Muff style circuit. It wouldn't be hard to take a Muff circuit and fool with it until it does what you want. I would recommend the Green Russian variation of the circuit as the one to start with.

[msurdin]

So this is the green one off of the GGG site
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_bmp_grus_lo.pdf
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_bmp_ggg_sc.pdf

Since I do have a muff, I dont want this sounding like it... but i'm sure what we plan to do to it will make is sound different from a muff.

What should we start with?

[soulsonic]

Well, are you interested in modifying your existing Muff to sound different? That would probably be easier than starting from scratch.
I couldn't really tell you where to start though. It's really the kind of situation where you need to sit there with a breadboard of the circuit in front of you and just start swapping parts until it sounds the way you want.

[msurdin]

No i dont really want to mod it, its a nice old green one.

I never have used a bread board, nor know where to start with one...
Recommended reading?

[soulsonic]

I've never seen any tutorials or books on "How to use a breadboard". I just bought one, started plugging stuff into it, and sort of just figured it out. They're a really valuable learning aid as well as a great way to test circuits.

Using your Green Big Muff as a reference point, what is it exactly that you'd wish to sound different in the one you plan to build? I personally prefer the sound of the Green one over the others, so I can't think of anything that I'd change about it. But what would you change about the tone if you were trying to get a different sound?