Analysis Cables

[Gus]

looking at this link from Aron
http://www.aqdi.com/cablecap.htm
How did they measure this using the 1990 strat(3/4 down graph)?  What mean is how did they get a consistent pluck or how did they do a frequency sweep using a guitar pickup.  It reads well at first look but what did they do?  Did they unsolder one end of the pickup and use a signal gen to drive the pickup end?  What pickup the bridge middle or neck the same pickup I hope?

I might use a small nonshielded loudspeaker at a set distance from the pickup and sweep the speaker the EMF from the speaker coil should be picked up by the pickups. 

Make a holder for the speaker and index it to the same spot and distance from the pickup and set the tone controls at one setting or make a test guitar.

Maybe this is a good way to test the guitar pickup cable system.

[Shepherd]

http://www.aqdi.com/cablecap.htm

A midrange hump?

Serendipitous.

[hairyandy]

Here's my $.02:  I've used the Analysis Plus cables and they sound good.  Are they worth the ridiculous price compared to other cables?  I don't think so and I would never buy them.  For my job we make every cable that we use on the road.  We get giant spools of Canare GS6 and Switchcraft ends from Tour Supply and we always make our own cables and looms during rehearsals for every tour.  There's no reason that everyone on this board shouldn't be doing this too, it's MUCH cheaper, the cables are very low capacitance and they sound as good or better than anything that you could buy for a comparative price.  Add to that the fact that you can repair them when they go bad, which does happen, and I don't think that there's any reason to buy commercial cables.  I never will again.

Andy

[R.G.]

Excellent, insightful and practical advice!

[aron]

There's no reason that everyone on this board shouldn't be doing this too, it's MUCH cheaper, the cables are very low capacitance and they sound as good or better than anything that you could buy for a comparative price.

Thanks Andy. But the question remains, does the Analysis cable sound better than your cables? If so, then why. I should be able to measure them soon.

[jakenold]

When I just needed a straight cable, I bought the DiMarzio. They aren't that expensive here in Denmark, and it's a good cable with Switchcraft-jacks in each end. I usually play a coiled cable, of the Bullet-brand, because I think they look cool, and do something to my tone that I like. Some might find that bad, but my setup can kill mosquito's if everything is "hifi".

That being said, when I'm playing my PRS/Bogner-setup with my other band, I'm using Switchcraft and Mogami, which I made myself. It's cheap and it sounds great - when I say sounds great, I mean my sound as a whole. Danish amp-guru Lars Reinau told me back in the days, that it's kinda silly to say that a certain component has a "sound", but instead listen to what it does to the sound and how a setup functions as a whole with that component. He breaks it down by saying that a cable works as a sort of passive equalizer or tone-control, and one equalizer might fit one application, and ruin another.

I like a little treble-cut EQ in my first setup (Strat/Tele -> Super Reverb) and full-on in the other (PRS -> Bogner).

To quote Public Enemy; "Don't believe the hype!"



Kind regards, Jake

[Processaurus]

For my job we make every cable that we use on the road.  We get giant spools of Canare GS6 and Switchcraft ends from Tour Supply and we always make our own cables and looms during rehearsals for every tour.  There's no reason that everyone on this board shouldn't be doing this too, it's MUCH cheaper, the cables are very low capacitance and they sound as good or better than anything that you could buy for a comparative price.  Add to that the fact that you can repair them when they go bad, which does happen, and I don't think that there's any reason to buy commercial cables.  I never will again.

Andy

That's what I do.  It has been nice dragging a cable around to shows that's rugged enough that it is one of the less likely things to break.  Plus it has a such a ridiculously heavy center conductor it works as a speaker cable too.

[hairyandy]

There's no reason that everyone on this board shouldn't be doing this too, it's MUCH cheaper, the cables are very low capacitance and they sound as good or better than anything that you could buy for a comparative price.

Thanks Andy. But the question remains, does the Analysis cable sound better than your cables? If so, then why. I should be able to measure them soon.

When we compared them on the road I didn't think so but then what do I know?   

Andy

[petemoore]

   Get your Wheatstone bridge on and do some snake sorting.

[Paul Marossy]

Y'all (especially RG's explanations) confirmed my longstanding viewpoint on these expensive guitar cables that manufacturers that are selling these days - it's mostly all a load of crap. 

[DougH]

The first time I did a side by side comparison with a high end cable I "thought" I heard the same thing.  After recording and listening back it became obvious that the added "fullness and bass" was really just less high end.  Shocked

That's what I was thinking when I read R.G.'s comments about how it could have more capacitance than other brands.

Aron, here's my little cable story- short and sweet. (This is not a guitar cable story.)

So I got an HD TV and HD DVD player and I wanted to get an HDMI cable for it. So I went to Circuit City (big mistake, I know) and the least expensive was $70. The "monster" stuff was > $100. So I went to Radio Shack and the cheapest one they had was $50. We're talking a 6ft digital cable here, looks kind of like a USB connector on ea end. No need for gold-plating and other nonsense- it's digital. I decided that $50 was more than I wanted to spend on this little cable, so I went home and spent 2 minutes on google and found a 6ft HDMI cable for $8, shipped. A week later I'm enjoying full 1080p video with no complaints. (No one has to know I spent less than $100 on the cable...shhh... )

My conclusion is the cable market has to be one of the stupidest consumer markets on the planet. We have a local upscale mall with a swanky shop that has a $300 pair of flip-flops too. Don't get caught up in this stuff, Aron... Try borrowing the cable from your friend and trying it out for yourself before you spend any money.

[aron]

>Don't get caught up in this stuff,

Yeah, I'm not going to get stuck on this other than wanting to measure the difference.

[Mark Hammer]

1) Cables matter.  I've mentioned this before but will mention it again.  Take a pedal patch cable of 1ft or less, and plug your guitar directly into your amp with it, and with your amp set for clean clear tone, listen.  Now take the longest cable you have and plug your guitar directly into the amp through that cable and listen again.  If your hearing hasn't been damaged yet, you should hear a fairly pronounced difference in the clarity of the high end.  That is the sound of cable capacitance added up over the length of the cable.  "Better" cable can improve this, but more length of even the best cable erodes sound quality and definition in the absence of buffering, which leads us to....

2) WHERE the cable is matters.  All other things being equal, the impact of a 20ft cable on your tone when it goes from a buffered effect to your amp is less than the effect of that very same cable when situated between your (unbuffered) guitar and the first pedal (or amplifier).  Spending money on the shortest possible decent quality cable you can get away with between your guitar and the next device in line is a good idea.  Spending big money on the cable between your pedalboard and amp, maybe less so.

3) Signal type matters.  Every instrument has harmonics, but some instruments cover a much broader range of the audio spectrum (e.g., acoustic guitar vs solid-body bass).  When different signals from more than one source are combined, that generally means even more of the spectrum will be covered, and the need to keep all the fundamentals and harmonics of the different sources aligned even greater.  So, all other things being equal, what you need to go from your bass pedalboard to the amp 8ft away at your seated light jazz lounge gig, is not nearly as demanding as what you need to go from your 24-channel stage-monitor mixer (including mic'd drums) to the power amps 50 feet away.  Multi-source signal paths always require better performance from cables than single source signals do.  And of course, cable carrying video signal (talk about wide bandwidth and high frequencies!) will benefit from cable quality infinitely more than guitar signal with its pathetically narrow spectrum. 

Context matters, and before one extrapolates too far one has to consider the circumstances under which cables are tested/measured and the extent to which that context mirrors your own usage needs.  There WILL be better cables as the technology moves along, but not all of them will necessarily translate into audible benefits in EVERY situation.  Many will only offer improvement is specific circumstances.

So, spend money (wisely) when you need to, and don't spend it when you don't need to.  And yeah, although our budget was a little different than Andy's typical client, the last band I was in, back in nineteen seventy-bgdfrwnb (covers mouth and mumbles), we bought a big roll of Belden 8410 (it was one of the best you could get at the time) and a wad of Switchcraft plugs and rolled our own.  I'm still using those cables.

[Paul Marossy]

My conclusion is the cable market has to be one of the stupidest consumer markets on the planet.

For the most part, I'm afraid that I am going to have to agree.

That's not to say that what Mark says isn't spot on. None of these details really matter much to me as I use the neck pickup 98.5% of the time and I boost the mids a fair amount. I like a smooth, fat sound. Never could stand piercing ice pick in your forehead treble, at least not while I am playing guitar... 

[dirk]

1) Cables matter.  I've mentioned this before but will mention it again.  Take a pedal patch cable of 1ft or less, and plug your guitar directly into your amp with it, and with your amp set for clean clear tone, listen.  Now take the longest cable you have and plug your guitar directly into the amp through that cable and listen again.  If your hearing hasn't been damaged yet, you should hear a fairly pronounced difference in the clarity of the high end.  That is the sound of cable capacitance added up over the length of the cable.  "Better" cable can improve this, but more length of even the best cable erodes sound quality and definition in the absence of buffering, which leads us to....

Now the cable acts as a lowpass filter.
This can easily be compensated for with an inverse filter.
Iow: Turn up the treble.

[PerroGrande]

The problem with turning up the treble is that you're going to end up turning up noise, too.  You're moving your "treble-spectrum" noise floor up with the signal level you're trying to recover.  It is always preferable to avoid loss than to attempt to recover. 

[dirk]

The problem with turning up the treble is that you're going to end up turning up noise, too.  You're moving your "treble-spectrum" noise floor up with the signal level you're trying to recover.  It is always preferable to avoid loss than to attempt to recover. 

Of cause, buffers are whats needed. Not exotic cables.

[DougH]

I've noticed slight treble differences in buffered vs. nonbuffered, long vs. short cables, etc, etc blah blah blah...

If any adjustment is required at all, a very slight tweak of the treble control on the amp suffices. It's not enough to make a noticeable difference in noise, etc. Certainly not enough to justify $100-$300 cables.

It's what those knobs are for, boys. Turn 'em!

[Paul Marossy]

If any adjustment is required at all, a very slight tweak of the treble control on the amp suffices. It's not enough to make a noticeable difference in noise, etc. Certainly not enough to justify $100-$300 cables.

It's what those knobs are for, boys. Turn 'em!

I couldn't agree more! 

[DougH]

It is always preferable to avoid loss than to attempt to recover.

Which is exactly what you are doing when you turn up the treble control in a passive tone stack- avoiding loss.

But if I understand you, I think you are saying that you should avoid loss at the input instead of trying to recover later. From a "pure signal" EE viewpoint, you are correct. However, in the case of guitar signals I don't agree at all. Taking this logic to the extreme - no one should use anything less than an active pickup system because that's the only way you are really going to reduce loss.

Personally, I hate active pickups (except in bass). And I've started making a move away from "hot" passive pickups as well. I replaced a Super Distortion on my solid body with a PAF. I purposely put weaker Filtertron-style pups on my hollowbody. Why? Because I love the sound and the headroom, and they interact better in some ways with pedals and the amps. That's a subjective choice and everyone has their own opinion. But, my point is that in certain contexts, loss at the input can be a good thing. It can be a very good thing IMO. Most people don't like the sound of a "lossless" low impedance signal blasting through the input of their Fuzz Face. They prefer to hear the effect of that lossy high-Z signal loaded down and frequency shaped by the fuzz circuit, because it interacts in a pleasing way.

So while I understand the arguments for low-loss, being an EE myself, IMO they make most sense in sound reproduction systems, and less to little sense in sound production systems like electric guitars. And while I do understand arguments for lower noise, and yes it's always best to lower noise at the beginning of the chain as much as you can, come on... We're talking loud electric guitars in environments like sweaty bars here, not brain surgery or some audiophool's listening room.