Fuzz Face Mods

[yeeshkul]

np i have germ. version already and wanna check out the silicon one

[ambulancevoice]

and my germs are npn

[RedHouse]

So is this the new or old pre-complaint avitar?

[analogmike]

My Sunface builder did part of the RM mod by accident, put in a 2uF in place of the 22uF cap.

BAD SOUND!!! No fuzz, weak.  Maybe it's a mistake in the drawing, I dont think anyone would want that cap to be smaller.

[mac]

the 22uf must be an electrolytic, so no

Bypass cap could be a tantalum, though I heard some people does not like them. Or as I did, three 6.8uf polys.

mac

[kurtlives]

I don't know why a lot of people suggest this as a first build.

It is so fiddley.

What is the tonal differences between a MKII Tonebender and a FF?

[smallbearelec]

The MK II will give you monstrous fuzz and practically endless sustain. See some of the ideas at Phil Bryant's Fuzz Central.

The FF is "fiddly" because its two transistors have to do a lot: preamplify, amplify, overdrive, clip, compress. By adding some gain at the input (which is the purpose of Q1 in the TB MKII) the exact gains of the following stages become much less critical. If you have a working FF pair, or even one that's a little weak, you'll be shocked at what happens when you add that first stage to make it a MK II. Q1 in that design can be as low as 60 and it will still work fine.

SD

[hellwood]

What is the tonal differences between a MKII Tonebender and a FF?

[kurtlives]

The MK II will give you monstrous fuzz and practically endless sustain. See some of the ideas at Phil Bryant's Fuzz Central.

The FF is "fiddly" because its two transistors have to do a lot: preamplify, amplify, overdrive, clip, compress. By adding some gain at the input (which is the purpose of Q1 in the TB MKII) the exact gains of the following stages become much less critical. If you have a working FF pair, or even one that's a little weak, you'll be shocked at what happens when you add that first stage to make it a MK II. Q1 in that design can be as low as 60 and it will still work fine.

SD

Alright thanks.

And you really never explained before. What are the differences off all the FF transistors you sell?

[hellwood]

What is the tonal differences between a MKII Tonebender and a FF?

man, there are a lot of variables, but my germanium fuzz face [ Q1 c -.487, b -.119, e 0(Hfe71), Q2 c 4.33, b -.487, e -.373 (Hfe128) (17.3k) Q1 c bias, (8.92k) Q2 c bias] sounds way more full and has more lows and mids and is what you would expect to hear if you were listening to hendrix whereas my tonebender mkII pro [Q1 - (Hfe 65)Q2 - (Hfe 73)Q3 - (Hfe 136)] sounds more like a wicked distortion pedal. the fuzz face has a better feel when the volume is rolled off. the tonebender sounds better on my fender amps and the fuzz face sounds better on the marshall. when the tonebenders attack is turned down it sounds unreal as well. they are equally cool. also, the fuzz face will kill the tonebender for solos but the tonebender will kill the fuzz face for articulated rhythms. you NEED both! i couldnt live w/out either, but mine are two completely different animals.

[ambulancevoice]

and my germs are npn

new, pre complaint avatar is in the lounge forum (called what the... (your opinion))

[kurtlives]

The MK II will give you monstrous fuzz and practically endless sustain. See some of the ideas at Phil Bryant's Fuzz Central.

The FF is "fiddly" because its two transistors have to do a lot: preamplify, amplify, overdrive, clip, compress. By adding some gain at the input (which is the purpose of Q1 in the TB MKII) the exact gains of the following stages become much less critical. If you have a working FF pair, or even one that's a little weak, you'll be shocked at what happens when you add that first stage to make it a MK II. Q1 in that design can be as low as 60 and it will still work fine.

SD

Alright thanks.

And you really never explained before. What are the differences off all the FF transistors you sell?

?

[smallbearelec]

And you really never explained before. What are the differences off all the FF transistors you sell?

If most people were to listen two FFs built with, for example, the All-American devices and the Sinos, and each pair was as close to identical in gain profile as possible to the other, Most people, IMO, would hear a difference in tone. I don't think either sounds bad if properly biased, just different. In this case, the Sinos sound, to my ears, more trebly. YMMV depending on what type(s) you use, their gains, and how they are biased.

Also please note: I do not price based on my perception of tone, but on the relative scarcity and cost to me of the raw germanium stock.

[Branimir]

What's the deal with the input cap? Why such large value? I'm having second thoughts about my FF, bass overloading is getting really on my nerves, I'm thinking of putting in a 22nF non polarized to stop the excessive bass... I tune to C so there's plenty of lows going on there...

On the other hand I just turn the volume pot on my guitar a notch lower than max and lows stop suffocating the fuzz... Is there a clever way to explain this phenomenon? Blocking distortion? Something else?

[yeeshkul]

I put into it a 47pF input cap as an optipn (together with a necessary bosst kick resistor in collector of Q2) to get a car radio sound out of it, hehehe. It really works on some r'n'r chord-riffs.

[hellwood]

bass overloading is getting really on my nerves... I tune to C so there's plenty of lows going on there...

tune to E flat.

[niggez]

What is the tonal differences between a MKII Tonebender and a FF?

...the tonebender sounds better on my fender amps and the fuzz face sounds better on the marshall. when the tonebenders attack is turned down it sounds unreal as well. they are equally cool. also, the fuzz face will kill the tonebender for solos but the tonebender will kill the fuzz face for articulated rhythms. you NEED both! i couldnt live w/out either, but mine are two completely different animals.

Thats what i thought after building an MK-2, and when i stumbled over a thread explaining how to bypass the first transistor stage of the MK-2 to turn it into a Fuzz Face, i installed a switch. It took a bit of fiddeling to find a bias which would make both parts sound good, but the outcome is great. If anyone is interested, heres the thread explaining it.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=62208.0

The correct way to bias it is - Q2 and Q3 first, and THEN Q1, since Q2 and Q3 are use by both circuits. If youre happy with the Fuzz Face part but cant bias Q1 to your liking, youll have to try it with other transistors.


mine is on a toggle 2pdt switch.

[yeeshkul]

what the bias of Q1 and Q2 should be like? I built mine FF/TB and i am happy with the result ... however i biased just the Q3.

[niggez]

im not sure what i biased mine to, i first placed trimpots to bias q1, q2, q3, then i replaced q2 and q3 with fixed resistors and only kept the trimpot on q1. Biasing q3 alone didnt work for me, but i didnt use any of the recommended transistors. I used Ady-10 Ge PNP transistors. Can't tell you their gain, because I was too lazy to measure once i found 3 that gave me a pleasant tone. I selected them by trial-and-error.

[drewl]

And you really never explained before. What are the differences off all the FF transistors you sell?

Also please note: I do not price based on my perception of tone, but on the relative scarcity and cost to me of the raw germanium stock.

I bought your matched set for my TB MKII which sounds incredible.
Where do you get these? Are they still being made or are they old stock?
If it's a highly guarded secret, no biggie, I was just curiuos.....i guess they're out there....I've been rummaging through any old electronic stuff I come across to steal Ge's.