Is this tone more asymmetrical or more sym ?

[gutsofgold]

www.myspace.com/theblackkeys

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XoG3TACGXZo

Dan's tone is pretty cool. I can get pretty close to it using my modified Fender Pro Jr. along with a touch of Tube Screamer.

My TS-9 is currently ripped apart as I am doing some mods to it. While it's opened up I want to change out the clipping diodes with germanium ones.

Would I be better off shooting for asymmetrical or symmetrical to get a similar sound. Or is the difference too subtle to really care? 

[Krinor]

Well google found this:

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/the-black-keys/Nov-03/1580

Seems like he's using a bunch of old fuzz boxes. That Fender amp will also have an impact on his sound.
If you plan to try to obtain this sound with overdrive/distortion circuits you'll need to go pretty wild with numerous asymetrical ge diodes I guess. Maybe even throw in a led in there on one side ?

Check out the Maestro Fuzz. That's the pedal this guy seems to favour. No clipping diodes there as far as I can see.

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=94&Itemid=26

[gutsofgold]

Hey thanks for that article! I could tell he was way into fuzz but sometimes he has this "tube amp on fire" kind of sound. I was coming close to it by running my little 15 watt Fender into a 2x12 cab and nearly maxing out the volume. Then I added a Tube Screamer in front of it and I was content.

I guess what I am trying to find out is...what kind of tones would typical of symmetrical clipping and what kind would be asymmetrical? Once my parts arrive in the mail I'm going to try both of coarse and listen myself, but for the time being I was looking for some examples.

[brett]

Hi
most of that tone is from an op-amp gain stage followed by another op-amp stage with two diodes (symetrical clipping) and a large capacitor in the feedback network.

If you want that sound from a pedal, search for the "Hidrosis" (hydrosis is "excessive sweating").  There'll be a schematic, pcb and layout.  The original maestro fuzz is good, but it hisses quite a bit.  My changes (with the help of RG Keen) in the Hidrosis make it a quieter, better pedal (in my humble opinion).  The Hidrosis has a lot more compression and "grit" than a tubescreamer, and there's no hump in the mids.  It's a very "flat" sound.  If you particularly want to use the tubescreamer, try turning the gain up quite high, and use a graphic equaliser to take out a few dB from the mids.  That might get you 80% of the way there.

But then, the Hidrosis is an easy build, and you'll go "THAT'S THE SOUND !".
cheers

[gutsofgold]

wow, can't wait to start building that. assuming its an actual pcb layout this will be my introduction into etching my own  .

for the time being i'm going to use two symmetrical germanium diodes.

[John M]

I have just been on this exact same journey building a pedal for a friend. I read it was the Maestro, so I built the version at GGG (although he may actually use earlier versions) and did not get the sound. I then went back and listened to their music again and found that the secret was to really drive the amps power stage (has to be a tube amp) with a mild bit of distortion from the the distortion channel (or you could get this by really driving your clean channel depending on your amp) and then just fatten it up with the fuzz. I guess the sound was 70% amp 30% fuzz if that makes sense, as the fuzz setting was quite mild. So in the end it is a combination and I don't think you will get a box that will give you that sound in a stomp at any volume level through any amp.

Have fun trying though, I did (although I am not sure how much the neighbours enjoyed it).

John

[brett]

Hi
there are several Maestro fuzzes.
Early ones were the FZ-1a and FZ-1b.  These feature lots of bass cut and a mis-based ("blatty") sound, as heard on "Satisfaction" and elsewhere. 

The one at GGG is the FZ1-S, also known as the super fuzz.  It more mainstream sound than the 1a and 1b.  It is also easy to bias, which wasn't always the case with the 1a and 1b.

However, the fuzz used by the black keys is the Maestro MFZ-1, which sounds completely different and is based on a dual op-amp.

Here's a schematic of an MFZ-1 relation, the Hidrosis.


I'll post a PCB and layout as soon as I find it.
cheers

[gutsofgold]

Thanks I've searching for that layout.

[brett]

For thick freakness, take one of these and post me in the morning.

PCB:


Overlay: