Tube boost + overdrive running off a 9 volt battery

[runmikeyrun]

I ended up putting an 7815 in mine before it went to B+. to regulate my 18v coming into it. minimum of the 7815 is 17v so I wanted to play it safe. It took out the hum when using a 12au7. Popped in the 12bh7 last night with same set up and hum came back   Im only using a single 100uf at the first regulator a 7812.

So I have a lil more experimenting to do. What I've noticed with mine so far is it has lots of volume (unity around 10 O'clock) and the only gain settings I like are when its all the way maxed, and I'm not a high gain player. It sounds pretty nice tho going into a clean bassman amp for blues, but still need to tweak it a bit.

Gonna play with resistor values for more gain. Also I noticed when I back off the gain is when I get more hum. I might try putting more caps across the regulators.

I wanna say thanks to all nerds in this thread!   This is my favorite thread of all time! You guys are great for all the knowledge you pass along. Ive learned sooo much in a short time from you guys. This is what the internet is all about!   shucks guys ya done got me going

I use a 7812, and I have a 220uF 35v cap on each "side" of the regulator.  A higher value such as 330 or 470uF would be ok too, but probably overkill and will start increasing dramatically in size.  One cap goes from Vin pin to ground, and the second goes from Vout to ground.  Be sure to observe correct polarity with the caps.  I place the caps about 1-2 cm away from the regulator because I'm afraid the heat might break down the caps and/or reduce the voltage rating of the dielectric- you can either leave the leads long and exposed or solder in jumpers if you have them.

Good luck.

[Ark Angel HFB]

So after three failed attempts I finally build one of these... what a sound... I just build the standard one on teh first page and ran it on a battery after my wall wart gave to much hiss/buzz... going to get a voltage redulator as well as some other stuff to mod it out later.

for now I can honestly say it is the best OD/Gain circuit I've ever played... at least it does everything that I want.

The sound isn't compressed really... and it responds so great to pick attack. I can go from just the slightest of OD to full blow Hard rock distortion just by playing harder... I don't even have to touch my volume knob to clean up, lol I can just play softer. For a player who plays with a lot of feeling... it is a very special thing.

Sadly there are two problems I need help with.

1. I'm happy with this pedal at 12vDC... and have ordered a wall wart for it... my wallwart is 12vDC but possibly unregulated/filtered. Can I put a 7812 and filter after it to allow for steady clean DC. what I'm asking is if a 7812(http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/KA7812ETU/?qs=ggemxziv1LLpCwqgzLaoT6NdYARBj95Hoguf%252bhBn4N0%3d) can be used with a wall wart that is already supposed to give 12 volts.

2. This is a weird one and I guessing I've @#$%ed the grounding some how... The signal gets louder when I place my hand on anything grounded inside the circuit or on my guitar. When I'm not touching something the volume drop dramatically and the sound gets flabby and bad. I've tried this with three different guitars so at this point I'm pretty sure something fishy is up with my wiring.

Should is it ok to ground everything to the input jack sleeve... or should I have just grounded it back to teh DC jack... or the out put sleeve... do some things need to be grounded to separate grounds???

please help when you can. ^_^

[Jdansti]

So after three failed attempts I finally build one of these... what a sound... I just build the standard one on teh first page and ran it on a battery after my wall wart gave to much hiss/buzz... going to get a voltage redulator as well as some other stuff to mod it out later.

for now I can honestly say it is the best OD/Gain circuit I've ever played... at least it does everything that I want.

The sound isn't compressed really... and it responds so great to pick attack. I can go from just the slightest of OD to full blow Hard rock distortion just by playing harder... I don't even have to touch my volume knob to clean up, lol I can just play softer. For a player who plays with a lot of feeling... it is a very special thing.

Sadly there are two problems I need help with.

1. I'm happy with this pedal at 12vDC... and have ordered a wall wart for it... my wallwart is 12vDC but possibly unregulated/filtered. Can I put a 7812 and filter after it to allow for steady clean DC. what I'm asking is if a 7812(http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/KA7812ETU/?qs=ggemxziv1LLpCwqgzLaoT6NdYARBj95Hoguf%252bhBn4N0%3d) can be used with a wall wart that is already supposed to give 12 volts.

2. This is a weird one and I guessing I've @#$%ed the grounding some how... The signal gets louder when I place my hand on anything grounded inside the circuit or on my guitar. When I'm not touching something the volume drop dramatically and the sound gets flabby and bad. I've tried this with three different guitars so at this point I'm pretty sure something fishy is up with my wiring.

Should is it ok to ground everything to the input jack sleeve... or should I have just grounded it back to teh DC jack... or the out put sleeve... do some things need to be grounded to separate grounds???

please help when you can. ^_^

Sounds like the circuit is reacting to the capacitance of your body.  Have you installed the circuit inside of a metal enclosure yet?

You say that you are running it off of a battery. I assume 9v. If so, you're going to drain it pretty quickly due to the current draw of the heaters. I wonder if it might be behaving funny due to the voltage being too low. You might want to check your battery's voltage with the unit on.  

Back to the the volume behavior, if it is still unboxed, I would want to see how it behaves after it is installed in the enclosure and you have 9-12v.

Regarding the regulator, my understanding is that they need 3v input above the rated voltage.  You might want to check the spec sheet.

Regarding grounding, some people live and die by "star" grounding to theoretically avoid ground loops. I've also read that any ground loops inside of a stomp box should be small enough to not cause any problems.

I know I didn't have definitive answers, but hopefully this helps.

[Ark Angel HFB]

Sounds like the circuit is reacting to the capacitance of your body.  Have you installed the circuit inside of a metal enclosure yet?

You say that you are running it off of a battery. I assume 9v. If so, you're going to drain it pretty quickly due to the current draw of the heaters. I wonder if it might be behaving funny due to the voltage being too low. You might want to check your battery's voltage with the unit on.  

Back to the the volume behavior, if it is still unboxed, I would want to see how it behaves after it is installed in the enclosure and you have 9-12v.

Regarding the regulator, my understanding is that they need 3v input above the rated voltage.  You might want to check the spec sheet.

Regarding grounding, some people live and die by "star" grounding to theoretically avoid ground loops. I've also read that any ground loops inside of a stomp box should be small enough to not cause any problems.

I know I didn't have definitive answers, but hopefully this helps.

I don't have it in a box yet... but that still doesn't explain how me touching guitar strings or the guitar's bridge would make the volume of the pedal jump up... could you explain the capacitance reaction you are talking about. I ask because the sound when I'm touching the metal is the sound I want all the time... which leaves me with two options... Find out what the hell is going on... or attach a lead to my wrist and tie it to my guitar bridge... Help me out so I don't have to do option 2. XD

thanks for the regulator tip... I might order some 9AU7 tubes and use my coming, and probably now useless 12vDC with a 9 volt regulator to get ride of the hum...

[chris73]

As for the power supply, i found an old Sagem phone charger with very well regulated 12VDC 1.5A! Works realy great and so, my suggestion is to dig around in our junk boxes, we may find treasures

[Ark Angel HFB]

Ok fix'ed my problem... it wasn't a grounding loop... but rather a lack of grounding at all... kinda...

See I know all about grounding loops... and wanted to avoid one... so I ground everything into a single wire, then grounded that into my input Jack sleeve... which is great... except I didn't ground my input jack sleeve over to my output sleeve mean I had a ground break in my circuit...

problem fixed... no weird noise jumps... now i simply await some more passive components so that I can try a few filter set ups for my Power Supply and which over to the value-master version and see if I like it better.

Will keep everyone up to date... ^_^

[Jdansti]

Ok fix'ed my problem... it wasn't a grounding loop... but rather a lack of grounding at all... kinda...

See I know all about grounding loops... and wanted to avoid one... so I ground everything into a single wire, then grounded that into my input Jack sleeve... which is great... except I didn't ground my input jack sleeve over to my output sleeve mean I had a ground break in my circuit...

problem fixed... no weird noise jumps... now i simply await some more passive components so that I can try a few filter set ups for my Power Supply and which over to the value-master version and see if I like it better.

Will keep everyone up to date... ^_^

Great! Glad you got it figured out!  Have fun with it!

[Ark Angel HFB]

just some more observation for those interested in talking things over... or helping... which ever.

1. The difference between 9vDC and 12vDC is massive in two ways. One the output is so much louder, and two it develops a completely horrible fatty bass. so very weird that the 9vDC doesn't do this all that much...

2. From what I can tell this pedal is a very odd little thing... and massively voltage sensitive as far as what the end EQ will sound like. for sure to much bass is present with the stock one... later tonight or tomorrow I will be setting up a test board. (This a pro mans bread board just with card board and jumper cables. XD)

3. I found a cheap power supply that give out a wonderful regulated 12vDC and is filtered as well... in the end the pedal is silent with it so I'm super happy.

[rutabaga bob]

If you're running 9 volts, try a 9AU7 tube, and see what you think.

[evirob]

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can help me. I know a few folks have built high voltage valvecasters using charge pumps or SMPS's, and having built a few of stock valvecasters, I want to play with higher voltage (~60v) as I've read the sound improves.

My question is about the output signal. Do you need some kind of buffer between a high voltage valvecaster and the next stage in your signal chain (amp/pedal)? Is that necessary?

When running the plate at high voltage, is the output therefore at high voltage? As far as I understand it, the P-P swing can be in the 10's of volts, depending on your HT.

I see from studying schems such as the firefly that the caps between pre and power amp are 400v. I wondered if it is possible to use a high voltage valvecaster (by high, I mean ~60v) as the pre-amp for a 12k5 power stage, which runs at 12V on the plate. Can I mix and match the plate voltages like this? The 12k5 datasheet says the max voltage going into g2 is around 20v so I don't want to melt any tubes!

Sorry if this question makes no sense, or I have misunderstood something fundamental about how tubes and pre-amps operate, I have been reading up on the theory as best I can, but it's a lot to take in, especially when you're teaching yourself.

Cheers,
Chris

[zambo]

your on the right track. Yes higher voltage valvecasters put out higher voltage. The volume knob is the variable voltage divider for the out put so you just have to turn it down. Just above unity for a regular amp input ( solid state) or with a tube amp you can turn it up to your liking. If you go to loud it just sounds like poop. You need to use higher voltage caps for everything. 400v caps are good and cheap still. Way more than what you need at 60v but cheap insurance is good. smps can easily put out 200v. be careful and ask a lot of questions. You are in serious risk of being bit hard if you dont. That said, I love high voltage designs. here is an smps amp

[evirob]

Thanks for the reply, that helps loads. And thanks for posting the video clip, your amp sounds great and its very inspiring to see what you can get out of a SMPS. You must be getting at least 50ma, right? To run the 6V6?

I've been reluctant to try high voltage designs for fear of electrocuting myself, but I think a charge pump is a good introduction. Thanks again for your advice.

[Ark Angel HFB]

Just scored 3 NOS 9au7s for $2 each on ebay, shipping included... well see how they are when they get here but since I'm typing I'll go ahead and say that Since no one has really taken the time and made a "full" ... I will soon be posting a full list of all variation on the Valve-Master that one can do... This will include a new on socket drawing and Vero.

I will be testing a few each of 9au7, 12au7, 12ax7, every capacitor with a few values, every resistor with a few values, and a few pot options.

Crunching the numbers that means there are around 816 different combinations... One of those has to sound really damn good... I will of course post my final finding here along with the Vero and "On Socket" Drawing.  Also a few other things like were to get great cheap power supplies that will kill all that horrid buzzing without any extra filtering. looking forward to giving back... this project has given me a lot and it only feels right. ^_^

[Ark Angel HFB]

Here is a little something to help those reading through... and wondering what to build... Page 134 has a great thread recap and here is a new UNVERIFIED version of the "On Socket" Version I will be building one from this in a few minutes but here it is all the same.

[Ark Angel HFB]

.

[Ark Angel HFB]

Hate making another post but I figured I'd give my trial and error logs so far.

Would put it in the post above but it won't let me edit my post for some reason... weird

Proto Valve Caster #1 Results = Success  (Liked T  he Sound)
Too much bass/flabby bass, Very sensitive crunch. Organic sounding, but can be too bright.
Not full Distortion gain, just strong OD. Likes single coils pickups better. Sounds best at 9vDC
C1 47nF          
C2 47nF                       
C3 1uF ← value suspected to be to high and store to much bass.                
R1 1M            
R2 220K
R3 100K                
R4/R5    1K                      
VR1-Gain     50K-A                   
VR2-Volume 100K-A                      

Proto ValveMaster #1 Results = Failed
Vero problem, lack of solid wire. Complete lose of board and components on board.
~Solid wire will work better. I'm bad with Vero... really bad...

Proto ValveMaster #2 Results = Success (Did not like the sound.)
Lower gain than Valve Caster #1.  Gain seems to act as little more than a less effective volume control. LED added and works. Foot switch added and works. Grounding needs works.
Pedal still too bright or just not enough bass. However Bass flab problem is gone. LED will not light when more than 15vDC is used, while 12vDC is fine.
C1 22nF     
C2 22nF                         
C3 0.001uF ← Suspected cause of lacking bass. Value to low.                
C4/C5 10uf                      
R1 470k            
R2 220K             
R3 100K                 
R4 1k     
R5 1K                             
VR1-Gain 500K-A                   
VR3 100K-A                      

Proto ValveMaster #3 = Results = Success (Sound is much improved, still very dynamic)
Still very bright, More bass but not enough. Bass can flab/fizz-out just a bit if to much pushed. Responded best at regulated 12.4vDC. Suitable for low breakup jazz. Bass is not tight enough.
C1 22nF      ← Consider raising to limit incoming bass in first gain stage (Might fix flabby bass problem)
C2 22nF      ← Consider raising to limit incoming bass in second gain stage (Might fix flabby bass problem)
C3 0.1uF     ← This seems like the right Value here.
C4 10uF     ← Consider dropping to 1uF to let more bass to ground in first gain stage to tighten bass response
C5 10uF     ← Consider Raising to hold more bass from ground and up the bass output in the second gain stage.
R1 470k     ← Need to test variants       
R2 220K    ← Need to test variants    
R3 100K                 
R4 1k ←(New R6) 47k Resistor placed after R4&C4, gain/treble less harsh.  ( or just up R4 to 47k on it's own...)
R5 1K ← Consider coping above with (New R7) to fully tame Treble and flab-outs. ( or just up R5 to 47k on it's own...)
VR1-Gain 500K-A  ← Consider adding (New R8) (470k to 100K) after going to ground to up gain.    
VR3 100K-A    

[zambo]

@ evilrob. I think im getting around 40 to run that thing. Starving it out pretty good. 

[fair.child]

Dear all Matsumin lovers,

Currently I really want to built Matsumin valve caster for my next tube pedal. I have several questions regarding my next built;

1) For me, this thread is huge, I mean, a long way to learn. I have been already read since 2 weeks and still read 'til page 87 (there was something that I've read on page 27-37), and I'm quite confused because there are a lot of good different kind of neat build. So my first question is, what kind of schematic should I use if I want to get brown sound/ lot of overdrive sound ? I saw many build used more than 3 knobs, so I wonder is there any kind suggestion, regarding my next build ?

2) Use of tubes, I also saw in here, there are many options to do with the tubes, in the schematic that was 12AU7, I read also about the NOS 12AU7 would be give good result too, but I don't have it on my hand. I just have 12AX7, could it possible to do in 9VDC ? or should I use SMPS to get the charge pump ?

3) last question, Where can I find SMPS schematic or charge pump schematic for this project ? (I've planned to use madbean roadrage, but if there any related charge pump will work, then I will use and really appreciate it)


Cheers all and sorry for my poor english

[zambo]

welcome fair.child. Your english is fine. Yes this is a huge thread!the murder one sub mini tube amp has a good charge pump to build and so does the gtfo thread. If you want hi gain you may want to look at the gtfo pedal which uses two 12ax7 tubes this pedal is simple and the schematics of the first two pages or so will give you a pedal with some mild overdrive that most people really like. Its a simple build. It uses the 12au7 because of its ability to function even at 9 volts. Some people claim to get more gain and better sound out of 12at7 12ax7 etc. but they dont always work consistently in this circuit. if you have never built with tubes i would try this out stock, then build a charge pump and modify it to get more output and work with other tubes like ax7 etc. after you have learned a little more. Mostly the safety factor involved with higher voltage. if you want to stay lower voltage you can stack 3 of these together and cascade them for some pretty hi gain sounds. not the same as high voltage but not really bad either. just different. you can also put a simple booster ( lpb1 or tillman boost etc. ) and do almost the same thing. Renegadrian has some cool designs for higher gain too. hope that helps.

[fair.child]

welcome fair.child. Your english is fine. Yes this is a huge thread!the murder one sub mini tube amp has a good charge pump to build and so does the gtfo thread. If you want hi gain you may want to look at the gtfo pedal which uses two 12ax7 tubes this pedal is simple and the schematics of the first two pages or so will give you a pedal with some mild overdrive that most people really like. Its a simple build. It uses the 12au7 because of its ability to function even at 9 volts. Some people claim to get more gain and better sound out of 12at7 12ax7 etc. but they dont always work consistently in this circuit. if you have never built with tubes i would try this out stock, then build a charge pump and modify it to get more output and work with other tubes like ax7 etc. after you have learned a little more. Mostly the safety factor involved with higher voltage. if you want to stay lower voltage you can stack 3 of these together and cascade them for some pretty hi gain sounds. not the same as high voltage but not really bad either. just different. you can also put a simple booster ( lpb1 or tillman boost etc. ) and do almost the same thing. Renegadrian has some cool designs for higher gain too. hope that helps.

great zambo, and thank you for your welcoming compliment. I came here because my big curiosity building tube pedal.
I've successfully build GTFO by Gabriel T and I saw your post and video related with the tubes. Nice!  

Okay, I wanted to make clearly assumption before I built this pedal

1) I have started over to read again this Huge thread from pages 47-60 to obtain more knowledge about this build. I think 12ax7 is fine to use with 12VDC and it seems quite different than GTFO. More simple than GTFO (this is one of my reason to built this pedal) but I worried with some issues about two 12AX7 will bring me a lot of gain

2) Regarding my first point, I decided to go with your opinion, Zambo. I agreed with mild overdrive, but I will use one 12ax7 (is it okay ?)

3) And yes, Renegadrian has posted some cool designs, triode triode , 6011 high gain , etc. Probably I will go one of his design to build.

4) I look over this thread and saw this



What is the right value for R1 and R4 ? I wanted to know it, should it around  kilo ohms or something ?

nb: I also like the aka_basse build, neat and use 12AX7, I wonder that he would help me to figure out with my build (I want to plan everything correctly) and I should use caps with capable of HV (I mean, above 250V ), shouldn't I ?

and I've found Tim build for valve caster. Looks like neat build and maybe I'll consider to follow him, although I would prefer to use 3PDT than DPDT switch


Valve Caster pedal guts (w/ parts list) by Tim Patterson, on Flickr

Cheers