Tremulus Lune Kit problems

[dap9]

I put the Tremulus Lune kit together last night and it's not working.     I get a bypassed sound (the inside red LED is on during bypass) and when I hit the switch the "external" LED lights up, but does not flash and I get no effect.  The only knob that works is the Gain.  I'm not sure if the diodes are oriented properly right now, but I've tried them in both directions to the same result. 


I've successfully modded and built several other pedals and kits so my soldering is pretty decent.  I've checked for cold joints and bridges and haven't found any.  I think I'll get the multimeter out see if I can find anything that way.  Thanks in advance for your help.


Here are some pics:

[soulsonic]

The only thing I can say for sure is the the LDR/LED combo needs to be tightly together and completely encased in shrink tubing to keep external light from interfering with proper functioning.
Does the LED next to the LDR flash as it's supposed to?

[cloudscapes]

from what I can see, the LED and photoresistor aren't facing each-other. the LED shines light mostly directly in front of it and right now its not pointing straight at the photoresistor.

[slacker]

To make it work properly you'll need to do what Soulsonic says, but you need to get the LEDs flashing first.
For some reason the LFO part of the circuit isn't working, that's the parts around the 4558 on the schematic. If you've got a multimeter try measuring the voltages on the pins of the 4558, pin 7 and pins 1,2 and 3 should be changing. If you post your voltages that might give some clues as to why it doesn't work. Also check all your solder joints and components around the 4558 in case there's a problem somewhere.
Your diodes are in the wrong way round but that shouldn't stop it working, the symmetry pot will just work backwards.

[dap9]

You guys are quick!  Thanks.  Ok, so the Photo resistor should be pretty much flush against the LED and wrapped in srink tube?  I didn't see that anywhere in the instructions.  I'll use some elec. tape first.

The LED next to the photeoresistor does NOT flash.  I'll check the voltages and get back.  Thanks.

[dap9]

Ok, according to my multimeter (and I'm a lttle knew at using this tool - I have the dial set on 20)


when I check pin 7 and pin 1 of the 4558 chip I get .95

Pin 7 to Pin 2 = .95

Pin 7 to Pin 3 = 0.00

[soulsonic]

Look at this pic on GEOFex:
http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/anderton.gif
In the top right-hand corner is the "DIY CLM6000" - that's a good way to do the LED/LDR thing.

[dap9]

Look at this pic on GEOFex:
http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/anderton.gif
In the top right-hand corner is the "DIY CLM6000" - that's a good way to do the LED/LDR thing.

Wow!  That's really helpful, thanks.  I just took some pics of my soldering work on the other side of the board.  I'm uploading them now...

[dap9]

Pics of underneath.  Lemme know if you need more:

This is under the 4558 chip:

[slacker]

Ok to take some measurement set your multimeter on 20volts DC then put the black lead somewhere on ground, like where the yellow wire connects to the board. Then put the red lead where ever you want to measure.
Measure the voltage on all pins of the 4558, and post them, that should help.
The pin numbering goes like this starting top left, where the spot is on the 4558.
1      8
2      7
3      6
4      5

[dap9]

Ok to take some measurement set your multimeter on 20volts DC then put the black lead somewhere on ground, like where the yellow wire connects to the board. Then put the red lead where ever you want to measure.
Measure the voltage on all pins of the 4558, and post them, that should help.
The pin numbering goes like this starting top left, where the spot is on the 4558.
1      8
2      7
3      6
4      5

Thanks Slacker.  I had it totally wrong other than knowing the pin orientation!

Ok, here' goes:

Pin 1 = 7.26
Pin 2 = 7.28
Pin 3 = 8.24
4 = 0.0
5 = 8.04
6 = 8.07
7 = 8.24
8 = 8.25

[dap9]

Well, I checked the voltage all over the board.  I don't really know what I'm looking for, the signal is all over so I'm at a total loss.  I'm gonna clean up and wait for some more help before I go too nuts.  Thanks for the help so far and in advance for the stuff to come.

[snoof]

you have the two diodes wired backwards, though I don't think that will matter the way that they are used in this crkt.  check the oreintation of the LED as well just to make sure.  the flat side of the LED is neg.

[dap9]

you have the two diodes wired backwards, though I don't think that will matter the way that they are used in this crkt.  check the oreintation of the LED as well just to make sure.  the flat side of the LED is neg.

Thanks snoof.  That was pointed out earlier as well so I fixed the diodes.  The LEDs are oriented properly, but thanks for thinking of that.  I wish it was one of those basic things.  Hell, still could be...

[dap9]

To make it work properly you'll need to do what Soulsonic says, but you need to get the LEDs flashing first.
For some reason the LFO part of the circuit isn't working, that's the parts around the 4558 on the schematic. If you've got a multimeter try measuring the voltages on the pins of the 4558, pin 7 and pins 1,2 and 3 should be changing. If you post your voltages that might give some clues as to why it doesn't work. Also check all your solder joints and components around the 4558 in case there's a problem somewhere.
Your diodes are in the wrong way round but that shouldn't stop it working, the symmetry pot will just work backwards.

Ok, I haven't been able to stop trying to figure out this dang thing.  I realized that pins 1,2,3 and 7 do indeed change so my previous voltages not fixed as I'd written.  I've been sitting down w/ the diagram and following the traces and it seems like everything is doing what it should be except the LEDs aren't flashing and I have no effect.  I did re-arrange the LED and LDR so that the LED is pointing right at the LDR (the part w/ the gold lines, right?) and I wrapped it up in electrical tape.  Still nothin' though.  Hopefully Dan over at Commonsound can help.  Just seems to take him longer to get back to a a post. 

Thanks for the ongoing support.

[snoof]

you have the two diodes wired backwards, though I don't think that will matter the way that they are used in this crkt.  check the oreintation of the LED as well just to make sure.  the flat side of the LED is neg.

Thanks snoof.  That was pointed out earlier as well so I fixed the diodes.  The LEDs are oriented properly, but thanks for thinking of that.  I wish it was one of those basic things.  Hell, still could be...

D'oh, I thought i read the previous postst carefully, i guess not

[dap9]

you have the two diodes wired backwards, though I don't think that will matter the way that they are used in this crkt.  check the oreintation of the LED as well just to make sure.  the flat side of the LED is neg.

Thanks snoof.  That was pointed out earlier as well so I fixed the diodes.  The LEDs are oriented properly, but thanks for thinking of that.  I wish it was one of those basic things.  Hell, still could be...

D'oh, I thought i read the previous postst carefully, i guess not

No worries.

Still in the same boat - anyone have any more ideas?

[danngreen]

OK, sorry ive been not reading your posts, ive been buried in getting the bend matrix out!
anyways a couple ideas:
1) Verify that the pots are not shorting to the board. Judging from the photos you have very little clearance.

2) Perhaps the 4558 is not working. Try replacing it, or for a quick fix, swap it with the TL072.

3) When you give us voltages for the 4558, could you also include the voltage at the top (+) of the 10uF cap (aka SMOOTH 3)? This is the "triangle wave output"

4) Can you elaborate on the voltages that are "not fixed"? Turning which pots effects which voltages on the 4558?
  4a) Turning Spacing should change the voltage at pin 5. Turning Speed should change it at pin 7 and at the "triangle wave output"
  4b) When the voltages change, does the LED change in brightness (try it with Depth at full)?

5) Depending on the answer to 3), you might want to try taking Symmetry out of the circuit. Either remove the pot itself, or remove the two diodes. Leave the jumper in. This might simplify your troubleshooting, as the circuit should work with sym omitted.

6) Actually I usually put up to 1" of space between the LED and CdS cell... not documented, but a little trick to adjust the gain since CdS cells have a wide tolerance. This isn't your problem, but I thought I'd mention my personal technique. With a light-tight box (e.g. hammond aluminum) you don't need electrical tape, but with a box with holes (junction box) it helps.

[dap9]

Awesome, thanks Dann!!  I really want to get this thing up and running   I'll try your suggestions when I get home from work today.  I have an extra 4558 chip at home and I'm pretty sure I have a TLO72 as well.  If the chip(s) were blown, would I still get voltage readings? (just curious as I'm kinda new to this).

I'm pretty sure the pots aren't shorting to the board b/c as I've been checking the voltage, I bent them away from the board and made sure they weren't touching the one across the way.

I'll try your suggestions regarding voltages and the pots/pins relationships.  The cap you mentioned as well.

Thanks again for responding.  I'll let you know how it goes.  I'll email you at Commonsound if you're not around to answer here.

btw, the Youtube clips are really cool!  I can't wait to see the Bend Matrix.

[johngreene]

Shouldn't the connection for 'fine' be shorted together? If you leave it open as shown in your pictures, the LFO output is not connected....

--john